Stardom, Struggle and Stolen Slippers: The Legacy of Judy Garland

In this deeply moving episode, we journey into the life and legacy of Judy Garland. As Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz, she traveled a road of uncertainty and danger, yet held fast to her core self. Joined by Judy Garland Museum’s Founding Director, John Kelsch, and Executive Director, Janie Heitz, we explore Garland’s life and story of resilience, heartbreak, and timeless courage that continues to touch hearts across generations. From the ruby slipper’s theft to her role as a beacon for those searching for belonging, Judy’s legacy serves as a poignant reminder of hope, home, and the strength to remain true, especially in challenging times.

Today, Judy’s voice echoes louder than ever. Join us as we remember why her legacy matters—and why her story, more than a century later, is one we can hold onto.

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Chapters

• 0:06 Judy Garland Museum Legacy Discussion
• 7:33 Impact of Judy Garland Museum Stories
• 13:08 Judy Garland Museum Exhibits and Initiatives
• 28:35 Resilience and Connection
• 36:24 Inspiring Message on Judy Garland's Museum

Transcript

Podcast Transcript Garland

PAT
Hi, I'm Pat Benincasa, and welcome back to Fill To Capacity. Today, Episode Number 86, "Stardom, Struggle, and Stolen Slippers, The Legacy of Judy Garland." You know, Judy Garland wasn't just a performer. She was a force, a symbol of resilience, longing, and raw emotion. Born as Frances Ethel Gum in Grand Rapids, Minnesota, she captured the world's heart as Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz and blazed a trail into American culture.

PAT
More than a star, though, Judy was an icon who wore her struggles openly, becoming a beacon for those who felt unseen. Her story of triumph, pain, and the search for home [reflects a universal journey. Decades later her legacy remains a testament to courage vulnerability and an unforgettable voice. Today as we honor her life at the Judy Garland Museum in Grand Rapids, Minnesota, we remember why she still matters.

PAT 
So joining us today are two dedicated guardians of the Judy Garland legacy. John Kelsch, a 35-year Judy Garland authority and Museum's founding director, has brought her story to life for decades and guided the museum through pivotal moments. including the Ruby Slipper Theft and Recovery.

PAT 
Joining him is Janie Heitz, the dynamic Executive Director of the Judy Garland Museum [and Children's Discovery Museum. Janie's fresh vision breathes new life into exhibits and deepens the community's bond with Judy's legacy together, John and Janie share their passion and insights into why Judy Garland's story still resonates and inspires.

PAT
Well, welcome. I'm so excited to have you two on today. I've been waiting for this. Welcome. Nice to have you here.  

JANIE 
Yeah. Thank you for having us. This is exciting. 

PAT 
Yes, it is. So, John, I'll start with you. The Judy Garland Museum has a rich history as one of the first celebrity museums in the U. S., celebrating the life and legacy of Judy Garland.

PAT
Can you share how the museum came to be and what makes it such a special place for fans and visitors alike?

JOHN
Well, our museum began in 1975. A local visual artist, Jackie Dingmann, here in Grand Rapids, Minnesota, is really the true founder back then. She was a very big Judy Garland fan and collector during her life.

JOHN 
And she traveled to London to meet with the Judy Garland fan club at the time and got them involved. And they're still based in London. And so Jackie founded the museum in the old central school, a restored Romanesque schoolhouse here in Grand Rapids. And then she founded the Judy Garland Festival, which in 1979, on the 40th anniversary of the Wizard of Oz, Jackie invited the wicked witch of the West to Grand Rapids.

JOHN 
And, Margaret Hamilton came here, partly because she had a good friend in Little Falls, Minnesota called Laura Jane Musser and, Laura helped convince Margaret to come here. So she signed autographs and went along with the show that year in 1979. And so then Jackie started a one room exhibit in the old Central School.

JOHN 
And then, fast forward 10 more years to 1989, on the 50th anniversary of Wizard of Oz, we held a huge festival. The Blandin Foundation here in town contributed, quite a large sum and we brought the Ruby Slippers here. Michael Shaw's Ruby Slippers came for the first time. We had         30, 000 people for our parade that summer.

JOHN 
And we built the Yellow Brick Road with engraved messages outside of the old Central School. 

PAT 
Wait, I'm kind of curious, what kind of engraved messages? 

JOHN 
Oh, families bought bricks and it said, we love you, Anna, you know. Dedicated to their family members. Dedicated to their family members or other, any message that could fit, you know, certain characters on three lines.

PAT 
You know what's so spectacular about that? Now, I have to tell you guys, I watched Wizard of Oz last night. I had to, okay? And I love that the whole notion of it is the meaning of home. And here, you build this yellow brick road with people, families remembering family members. It doesn't get better than that.

JOHN 
No, that's for sure. 

PAT 
Oh, that's awesome. So, Janie, the museum [00:06:00] plays such an essential role in preserving Judy Garland's legacy. What are some of the most surprising or emotional moments you've witnessed from visitors who come to experience the connection to Judy? 

JANIE 
Yeah, so I've been with the museum for about three and a half years now.

JANIE 
And in that first year, I spent a lot of time walking around talking to visitors, trying to understand what brought them here. And I think it's exactly what you just said that sense of home. And we're two museums in one. So we're the Judy Garland Museum and Children's Discovery Museum. And what I've come to learn is a lot of the Judy Garland people that are coming here, Wizard of Oz fans, they are being brought back to their own childhood.

JANIE 
They are walking in and they are contemplating their childhood. They're thinking about the one time a year that the Wizard of Oz was shown. It was a time when families would gather in their living room and watch that iconic movie once a year because it was always shown. And so, I think it's that whole notion of home.

JANIE 
It makes them feel safe and at home they get to be with their family. They're usually in their home when they watch the movie. And it's just, a film that resonates with people of all different ages, sizes, shapes and cultures. And so, there's always stories of, uh, I think there's one where this gentleman came and I didn't experience this.

JANIE 
This was one of our board members, but kind of a motorcycle guy, right? Kind of looked a little scary, to be honest. And he came to the museum. And one of the board members was actually working the front desk that day to help out and she was a little nervous about it, right? He just kind of looked scary.

JANIE 
Came through the, went through the Judy Garland Museum, stopped at the front desk, and had tears running down his face. [00:08:00] And, made a comment to her and she was shocked, Oh my goodness. Like, why are you crying? And he said, I had a really tough childhood with my dad. And the only time he gave me comfort was when I was watching the scary part of the wizard of Oz when the monkeys were flying and I got scared and he pulled me tight and held me.

JANIE 
And it's the only like really positive memory I have of my father. And of course, you know, tears to the board member and, so that's one example. And then even just for myself, when you walk into Judy Garland's childhood home, I think there's just this, like, you just feel like safe and comforted in there.

JANIE 
I don't know. It's just a cozy house. You can tell that there was happiness in the house. It's just a, it's a happy place to walk into. And then the other, surprising thing I heard, I was walking around one day talking to people and there was these grandparents from Ohio and they had their 13 year old grandson with them and they drove all the way from Ohio because the grandson had heard about the theft of the Ruby Slippers and he became fascinated with it.

JANIE 
He had to see the place where they were stolen. And so they, they had nothing else on their agenda. They hopped in the car, they drove all the way from Ohio just to see this place. And so, I think we're covering just all the different reasons to come see the Judy Garland Museum. And I just thought that was fascinating.

JANIE 
And shortly after that, at the time we didn't really have much up about the theft of the Ruby slippers because there had not been any updates on the case. And shortly after that, we started putting out more information to the fans and the visitors about the theft of the Ruby slippers, because we, I also came to find that it's the most talked about conversation at the front desk.

JANIE 
I think those are some of the highlights that I've experienced in my short time here. 

PAT 
Thank you. Now, John, let's go to those slippers. You were at the helm when the infamous, and I say infamous because that story went around the world. So you were at the helm of the infamous theft of the ruby slippers when it happened.

PAT 
Can you take us back to the day that day and share how it felt to discover such an iconic piece of film history was stolen from the museum. 

JOHN 
Yes, it was the summer of 2005, almost 20 years ago. We'd had the Ruby Slippers here in Grand Rapids four times over the years. And so we always felt comfortable and exhibiting them.

JOHN 
On the wee morning hours of August 28, Terry John Martin from rural Grand Rapids smashed the glass on an emergency exit door and was in and out of the museum in about 50 seconds with the slippers.

JOHN 
That same evening, Hurricane Katrina hit land in New Orleans. So the story really, got out there, but not as widespread as it would have been. Naturally because of the hurricane, David Letterman did mention it that week on his show that he had heard that the robber was armed and fabulous and that got into time magazine, they quoted David Letterman.

JOHN 
Then in Time Magazine. 

PAT 
Armed and fabulous? 

JOHN 
Armed and fabulous.

PAT 
Okay. 

JOHN 
Well, we felt violated. Yeah. It was terrible. It really damaged our reputation, damaged our credibility as far as borrowing other [00:12:00] artifacts. So, the museum went through a very difficult period after that.

PAT 
Yeah. If anyone has ever had their house broken into, I know I did years ago, you do feel violated. And in this case, this was a violation of our cultural home, collectively speaking. Yes. To the place of Judy Garland in our culture. It was huge. It wasn't just breaking in. It, took something from all of us, I think.

JOHN 
Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

PAT 
Okay, I have a question for both of you. Judy Garland's life was marked by incredible achievements and significant personal struggles. How do you balance showcasing her triumphs and addressing her challenges in the museum exhibits? 

JOHN
We have a small exhibit about Her troubled life and her addiction to prescription drugs, which people read every word of, you know, fascinated by the story and saddened by the story, how she became addicted at probably age 16 with all kinds of uppers and downers.

JOHN 
That were given innocently enough by her mother, even At that time, those drugs had no track record. They were recently discovered in Hollywood. They were treated like a miracle pep pill. Oh, you need to stay up for 72 hours. Take some of these , need to be on the set at 5 AM for makeup? Take some of these.

JOHN 
Yeah. You need to sleep at night? Take some of these. And they also knew that it suppressed one's appetite. And Judy was [00:14:00] always threatened by, if you gain even a pound, we'll cancel your contract lickety split, and so it's really sad how really a teenager was when you need all the calories to grow was starved.

PAT 
And for a young person to carry that burden of showing up, giving your. best when the cameras are rolling. I don't know if she ever had time to be a teenager. 

JANIE 
Yeah, she really didn't and I would say to the other way it's captured in the museum is John does guided tours every Friday and Saturday and he does discuss it in the tours.

JANIE 
In more depth. And that's when questions come in. What I've noticed too, as a lot of people walk through, and they didn't realize. A lot of people know about Judy struggles, but a lot of people don't really, so a lot of people say, I'm just surprised at her life. And how sad it really was.

JANIE 
But for the most part, I would say most of our exhibits were on the positive side. We don't focus on that so much. It's definitely a part of her story, but there's so much more to her story too. Yes. Yeah. And her accomplishments. So, I would say a lot of the museum is focused on the positives, but you can't ignore the other parts.

PAT 
Yeah. Actually, it makes her achievements more remarkable, poignant, and something that people can just say, Oh, it was easy for her. She was a star early on. No problems. But when you really start reading about her life, how she had the resilience to do what she did at the level, she did it. It's just breathtaking.

JANIE 
Yeah, it's quite amazing. 

JOHN 
And the comebacks she made. Yeah. Carnegie Hall. Yeah. 

PAT 
Listen, my mother and that album, Judy Garland at Carnegie Hall. I think she wore it out, quite frankly. Okay. 

JOHN 
Never been out of print. And it won five Grammy awards that year. 

PAT 
Oh, that should never be out of print.

PAT 
That is classic. So, John, you've dedicated nearly four decades to the museum and Judy Garland's legacy. I want to know, what was it about Judy that captivated you and motivated you to commit your life to preserving her story? What is it, John? 

JOHN 
Well, I think it's, her incredible talent, all packed into one.

JOHN 
Singer, actor, dancer. It just doesn't come along once a century, really. And, you know, I think after listening to her Someone in college gave me a cassette tape of Judy Garland's greatest hits and I played that one winter in my car all winter long and just blown away realizing her great vocal abilities which went so far beyond Wizard of Oz.

JOHN 
And then I just sort of forgot about her till I moved to Grand Rapids and realized she was born here. Digging into the story about Her family spending 12 years here just became that whole vaudeville era fascinated me. And that's what we talk about mostly on our guided tours, their life, the family life here in Grand Rapids for 12 years.

PAT 

John, when you talk about Judy in that context, when you look at 20th century cultural icons, Marilyn Monroe, Elvis Presley, Frank Sinatra, Lucille Ball, I love Lucy. When you look at all of them, they have their followers and their devotees. They do. But there's something about Judy Garland that seems to have a different depth to it.

PAT
And I'm not trying to malign people's affection for these other people because these were incredible performers. But there's something about Judy that takes hold of the imagination, takes hold of the heart. What do you think it is? 

JOHN
Well, it's her emotional delivery of the song. She was the song when she was singing it.

JOHN
And, you know, Americans and others around the world grew up watching Wizard of Oz on television. Frank Sinatra often said, we will all be forgotten, but never Judy. 

PAT 
Really? 

JOHN 
I'm sure he was referring to Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz. 85 years later today, I asked the second, third graders, how many have seen the Wizard of Oz?

JOHN 
And I'd say seven out of 10 still raised their hand. So it's encouraging. 

PAT
Oh, it is. You know what's life's little irony is that when that film came out in 1939, originally it flopped. I mean, it didn't have that kind of hold that when you fast forward, it was a spring event. in houses across this country, that when spring rolled around, the family gathered, and you had to watch Wizard of Oz.

PAT 
But it started out as a flop, and just like, , It's a Wonderful Life in 1946, Frank Capra's film. That bombed! But yet, I can't imagine Christmas without watching that. 

JOHN 
Yeah. Well, because of the great expense MGM lavished on the Wizard of Oz film, uh, you know, 3 million dollar expense, which would be 88 million in 1939. 

JOHN 
To give you an example, Star Wars was budgeted at 450 million, but still it was big, big amount. Well, the studio knew it wouldn't really recoup the money. And it didn't. It took 10 years to recoup the money. It was a critical success and a box office success, but financially it was a loss. They were prepared for that.

JOHN 
When it was sold for television in 1956, At that point, it went on to make billions of dollars. You couldn't even calculate how many billion with all the merchandise that goes along with it. Oh, yeah. 

JANIE 
And Hollywood now , it will just never die. They will find a way to keep it alive.

JANIE 
"Wicked" is coming out less than two weeks now. And so it's a spinoff. And so, I think for Judy, she's immortalized because of her role as Dorothy Gale in The Wizard of Oz. And it's [00:21:00] her voice, and I think when people come to love Dorothy, they learn, a lot of people are motivated to learn more about that character.

JANIE 
Who is the person behind that character. 

PAT 
Yeah, just watching her at that age. And what's interesting, Shirley Temple was first going to be cast as Dorothy Gale. Yes. And watching it last night, now I like, Shirley Temple in her milieu, she was wonderful. But I'm trying to picture her emoting and the depth that Judy was able to generate in that role.

PAT 
I frankly can't imagine anyone but Judy Garland doing Dorothy Gale. 

JOHN 
Right. Shirley Temple was a big Wizard of Oz fan. She read all the books. Really? They were her most popular, favorite books in her library as a kid. So, she was disappointed with them. She was not chosen. Well, I bet she was. Or unavailable.

JOHN 
Yeah. I'd say. 

PAT 
Okay, Janie, as the current Executive Director, what are some of the new initiatives or exhibits you're most excited about that will further cement Judy Garland's relevance for further generations? 

JANIE 
Well, we're trying to buy the Ruby Slippers, I would say is the biggest one. We are actively raising funds to try to purchase the slippers.

JANIE 
They are out on auction right now. The final day is December 7th, 2024 in Dallas, Texas. We're actively seeking funders for that. So that's the biggest one. We think it's a fitting place to have a pair of ruby slippers in a place where Judy Garland was happy. She called it a terribly happy time in her life and as she had a lot of ups and downs in her life, but this was a terribly happy time in her life and her home.

JANIE 
And so we're very happy. We're hoping for that. We do have a Ruby Slipper theft exhibit now, and we are doing guided tours on the theft. We want to share the story. The other major projects for the Judy Garland Museum is, and it's a long, it's been a long, road, but we have an object theater that we want to install in Judy's house.

JANIE 
And so it would be, kind of making the house come alive to share her this. Not only Judy's story, but what life in the 1920s in Northeastern Minnesota was like. And so, it's called components of an object theater. There will be like audio and visual opportunities that people can snoop around the house, and it might ignite some audio that would share an anecdote of what, like this, , the summer kitchen.

JANIE 
When you walk in the house, it would ignite a conversation or something that happened like an anecdote that happened amongst the sisters in that space. You'll open the door to a where the basement was in the house, and it'll be a visual. Look of stairs going down. And when the girls were scared during storms that they were running, like footsteps running down the stairs during a storm, cause Judy's mother was terrified of thunderstorms.

JANIE 
And so it would ignite that audio of, Ethel getting the girls together to go down to the basement. And on the summer porch, it was the main door of the house. It would ignite audio of, the girls uh, they gathered choke cherries and they all got dirty and were, giggling about it.

JANIE 
So, it'll do things like that. And so that's our one if the ruby slipper thing doesn't pan out. 

PAT 
Oh, that's exciting. 

JANIE 
Yeah. More interactive experience for visitors , can contemplate the space differently. And also, being in that time period. 

PAT 
You know, history is alive. History is not, oh, so and so lived here and they died.

PAT 
No, no, no, no. It is about who lived there, what was going on, what was going on in the world, what was their day-to-day life like? And I want to ask you, when you talk about the house and the girls, who lived in that house? 

JANIE 
So it was Judy's parents, Frank and Ethel Gumm, and then Judy and her two older sisters.

JANIE: 
So there were three daughters in that house. and they were like John said, they were part owner of the local theater here in town. And so they had a very unique life for Northeastern Minnesota. 

PAT 
Oh, it does sound like that. 

JANIE 
Yeah. They were the stars of our town. Yeah. 

JOHN 
Family on stage. 

JANIE 
Everybody knew the Gumm family because of their unique. life really. So this object theory would help you make the house come alive a little bit more. And I think you can have a deeper connection with Judy's story and the whole family story really.

PAT 
Yeah. I don't think Garrison Keillor ever talked about that in a Lake Wobegon story. So it's fascinating to know of the Gum family's place in their Minnesota town. I mean, that's really quite a peek into a little town where these people were held in esteem and looked up to. That's very nice.

PAT
Well, I have a question for both of you. The ruby slippers have almost a mythical status. An American pop. A question for both of you the ruby slippers have an almost mythical status in American pop culture Why do you think these shoes in particular? Have such an enduring legacy And what would it mean for the museum to get them back.?

JOHN 
Well, they're a, a universal symbol of home. [00:27:00] Everyone around the world can identify with home and it would mean more visitors, but the slippers could be preserved and shared with the world here in the heartland of America where one pair really belongs. The story set in the Midwest to truly the first, truly American fairy tale story set in Kansas.

PAT
Yeah, yeah, that's a fascinating point. Now, John, you guided the museum through a challenging time, the slippers theft and recovery. And I was reading in a social media post, Governor Tim Walz said regarding the state's effort to buy "the damn slippers to make sure they remain safe at home in Grand Rapids on display for all to enjoy under 24-7, Ocean's 11 proof [security."

PAT 
So John, how did the theft and its aftermath shape the museum's approach to security? And what did you have to do about public trust? 

JOHN 
Well, immediately after the theft, we increased our security system here. It was lax at the time. The building was brand new and we're just a small-town museum.

JOHN 
We brought a safe into the museum at the time, U. S. Bank donated a real bank safe for us to use. We wanted to put those slippers in there every night, and lock them away, but the owner did not want us handling the shoes. So there that safe sat during the whole venue, it was so heavy, it made marks in the tile floor.

JOHN 
But our security, we beefed up motion detectors, had door alarm contacts, improved, cameras, 24-hour taping, which we did not have at the time. 

PAT
And that, that's a huge financial that was done immediately then. Okay. But that's a huge financial outlay for you. 

JOHN
It was, yeah. 

PAT
So I wanna shift gears into a different direction, and this is a question for both of you.

PAT
Judy Garland's work has inspired performers. supported civil rights, and connected deeply with the LGBTQ community. How does the museum highlight these aspects of her impact, and why do you think she resonated so deeply with these communities? 

JANIE
I think Judy was an accepting person of all. I think she just, she loved people and, she didn't care where they came from.

JANIE
She was an accepting person of all. We do highlight her involvement with helping the troops and going to children's hospitals. And, yeah, we do have a really nice exhibit leading up to the house that talks about some of that, but I think mostly Judy was just a really good person at her heart.

JANIE
She had a big heart and loved kids. Had three of her own. And we also think she would be proud to be connected to a children's museum. I think, her son Joe Luft has said, when we've asked him, John said, What's your favorite part of the museum, of your mom's museum? Well, the children's museum.

JANIE
So nothing in the Judy Garland Museum. He loves the Children's Museum. He thinks that's the best part. And so Judy loved people. 

JOHN
And I think it goes back to the emotional delivery of her songs. People could so identify with, "why, oh, why" can't I be part of this world?

PAT
Also last night, as I told you, I was watching Wizard of Oz. And the beauty of that movie is that you can always see it with fresh eyes. There's always something to discover. And I was deeply moved in the part where she meets Scarecrow. And these people are so, these entities are so damaged.

PAT
They're flawed. They're a mess. But she, she welcomes each one in their own way. She doesn't judge them. 

JOHN
She wants to help them. 

PAT
She wants to make them part of helping each other. That sense of we can lift each other in this. Let's go to the wizard. I guess in today's world, when I watch that, it just, it profoundly struck me.

PAT
That this idea that you know, we're in this life together and she really really in those passages- And oh, [there's such a mess and then she's a mess. But one thing I love about that as well in the movie when somebody like when with lion when he becomes a bully and she's  had enough and She'll just and went to the wizard.

PAT
She's had enough boy. She'll give him an earful and I love that righteousness of, you know, like you've crossed a line. That's, that's not okay. It's not okay to bully somebody. Oh, that was just, I, I clicked it and played it again. Okay. Yeah. I played those scenes again. Just, it was just wonderful to take that in.

JANIE
Absolutely. And when you just as you were saying that you're thinking you can watch the Wizard of Oz anytime and maybe depending on your own personal mood, you can take different things away from the movie based on your own mood. 

PAT
Yes. And also the world changed from 1939. on the precipice of war, to God knows all the things we've gone through as a country and a culture, and here we are in this moment in time.

PAT

What makes this a classic, it is timeless. So when we look at the outside world, the context, this movie still resonates with basic truths that doesn't change 

JOHN

By the way over the rainbow became a an anthem during World War Two All the soldiers wanted to hear that song one in England if you could picture yourself in a air raid shelter and the Germans are bombing London.

JOHN

There's that song playing. When the Germans attacked Poland in September 1939 it started. Well, Oz came out before that. So that song just adored Judy. She was to them. 

PAT

Oh, I bet. Probably, like Edward R. Murrow was to what was going on there for the American people at that time.

PAT

So, John, now you've played a significant role in raising funds and expanding the museum over the years. What has been the most fulfilling part of seeing the museum grow from its very beginning to what it is today? You've watched it all. 

JOHN

Well, I think the two most important projects were the, the loving restoration we did on the Judy Garland Childhood home.

JOHN

And that was One of our first projects 30 years ago, based on eyewitness accounts and photographs, we brought the home back in time as best we could. And then I think the creation of the Children's Museum next door, which serves a broader audience. We've kept that, a broad learning, hands on learning space for children zero to ten.

JOHN

They learn about the arts, sciences, the humanities. It's not tied to the Wizard of Oz. And that appeals to the local northern Minnesota audience, families. 

PAT

Well, as we, get towards the top of the hour, finally to both of you, Judy Garland's life was a blend of magic. And it was her passion, triumph, deep struggle, mirroring the very themes of resilience and homecoming that she portrayed so beautifully. As the stewards of her legacy, what do you hope visitors take away from the museum? Not just about Judy as a performer, but as a person whose journey still resonates?

JANIE

Well, that's a really loaded question. 

JOHN

I think it goes back to Wizard of Oz and that whole thing about how that film scares children, frightens them, but then it so reassures them at the end. And that comfort, I think Judy is a symbol of that reassurance that everything's going to be okay. Like they felt during World War II.

JOHN

An anthem of promise and hope. And that song, has been named the top song of the 20th century. Two national polls. The American people chose that song.

PAT
You know, John, I think you hit the nail on the head. Don't worry. Everything will be okay. 

JOHN
Yep, for sure. And it will. Yeah, it will. Yeah. Well, the world goes on. 

PAT
It does go on. Yeah. And we're here at this moment for a reason. And we steady on. Well, thank you both John and Janie for sharing this journey with us.

PAT
Judy Garland's legacy is so much more than her films and songs. It is a story of resilience and connection. That still resonates today and through your dedication, the two of you, you've kept your spirit alive for all of us, reminding us of the power of home, heart and courage, something we need to hold on to now more than ever.

PAT
Thank you so much for coming on today. You're just what we needed to hear. 

JOHN
Well, thank you for your interest. 

JANIE
Yeah, this has just been a great interview. I think you hit the nail on the head too, with what you just said. It's something we all need to be reminded of in the aftermath of just everything that's been going on in the world and in our country.

JANIE
So thank you. We appreciate your interest in Judy Garland. She's a timeless person. So doing what we do and, for people, you don't have to be a huge Judy Garland fan to come here and learn something or experience something. There's something for everyone here. So, we hope we can get some more visitors to come to, to see Judy's.

PAT
Oh, I'm sure you will. So, thank you everyone for tuning in. If today's episode sparked something in you, share it with your friends, subscribe, and until the next time, take care. Bye.