The Radical Power of Art: Saving History, Shaping Futures

Listen as Joan Vorderbruggen, a visionary force in public art and creative place-making reveals how art can revolutionize communities. Through Minnesota's beloved Dayton's holiday displays and the new Twin Cities Public TV (TPT) documentary "Remember the Magic," she weaves together cultural preservation, community transformation, and art's power to drive social change.

Her work spans from "blazering up" for boardroom presentations to organizing community celebrations in challenged urban spaces.  Joan's raw authenticity reveals how art can combat homelessness, bridge divides, and turn despair into hope and connection.

She describes working with unsheltered individuals, empowering youth through creativity, and changing perspectives - even among skeptical civic leaders. 

Joan's radiant spirit and profound wisdom reminds us that saving cultural treasures isn't just about preserving the past - it's about igniting the sparks that light our collective future.

Today's episode is brought to you by the Joan of Arc Scroll Medal, a beautiful brass alloy medal, designed by award-winning artist, Pat Benincasa. This uniquely shaped medal is ideal for holiday or as a special occasion gift!    Visit www.patbenincasa-art.com
For international listeners the medal is available on Etsy.

Joan of Arc Scroll Medal
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Please Note: The views expressed by our guests do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcaster.

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Chapters

• 0:06 Preserving Dayton's Iconic Holiday Magic
• 9:49 Preserving Iconic Holiday Figures
• 22:53 Transformative Community Art Project in Minneapolis
• 31:45 Empowering Artists as Change Agents
• 37:32 Nurturing Youth Leadership in the Arts
• 49:04 Legacy of Community Empowerment and Art

Transcript

Pat
Fill To Capacity where heart grit and irreverent humor collide. A podcast for people too stubborn to quit and too creative not to make a difference.

Pat
Hi, I'm Pat Benincasa and welcome to Fill To Capacity . Today, Episode 90, The Radical Power of Art: Saving History, Shaping Futures. 

Okay, picture this downtown Minneapolis mid 20th century and the iconic Dayton's department store towers over Nicolette Avenue, like a beacon of style, innovation, and community. This wasn't just a place to shop, it was a destination, a cultural institution where generations gathered from the world's first enclosed shopping mall at Southdale to the unforgettable holiday magic of the 8th floor auditorium. 

Dayton's was indeed part of Minnesota life, even as the Dayton's name faded from the storefronts its impact lives on in the hearts of those who grew up with its magic. Today we step into that rich history one filled with glittering holiday memories, groundbreaking innovation, and a spirit that's pure Minnesota. My guest is no stranger to preserving legacy and honoring cultural stories. 

Pat
Joan Vorderbruggen is a visionary force and public art and creative placemaking. Okay you guys, she is known as a one-woman powerhouse. She transforms spaces and lives, creating platforms that unite communities. Joan doesn't just champion the power of art, she brings it to life. And now she's back in the spotlight with the release of, Remember the Magic, the new Minnesota public TV, TPT documentary that celebrates the legendary Dayton's holiday shows. 

Oh, you guys, I just watched Remember the Magic! I was absolutely blown away by this documentary. Joan's role rescuing and preserving the iconic holiday figures, or should I say figurines from destruction, safeguarding a beloved piece of Minnesota's cultural history. 

But for Joan, it's never been just about preserving the past. It's about re-imagining the future. Today we'll dive into the heart of her work, how art builds connection, empowers communities and addresses some of the toughest challenges we face. 

Get ready to meet the woman who's redefining what it means to fight for art artists and the stories that shape us all. 

Okay, Joan Voderbruggen. It's so nice to have you here.

Joan
Pat, what a generous, and amazing introduction. I am teary. Lovely. Thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be back. I am such a huge fan and love this podcast and, and just feel so privileged to be able to spend some time here. So, thank you for holding this space and for sharing these amazing stories.

Pat
Well, thank you. You're gonna make me teary. Now stop it Joan. So let's start with Remember the Magic. What is that? Well, this is really hard because watching that documentary, I want you to tell listeners I have an international audience. Remember the Magic is about, take it away, Joan.

Joan
Okay, we're gonna go way back in time. I'm gonna give some high-level information about this. So the Dayton's family, Dayton's is a department store that was located in the heart of downtown Minneapolis along Nicolette Mall, which for those of you aren't familiar with, that was a pedestrian mall. That was a whole, it's a whole other show. It's a huge innovation. 

And the Dayton's retail store was very much a central place to gather. It was so much more than just a retail experience. Mr. Dayton had this extraordinary vision to create an auditorium within his department store, something that had never been done before. It was completely unusual. His vision was that this auditorium was going to be a gathering space where people would come from all over the Midwest to have an experience unlike any other, and that it would be a destination. And really, when you think about it, when we talk about creative placemaking, you know, creating an immersive artistic destination in the heart of downtown amidst an incredible retail experience, is a very brilliant thing to create.

Joan 
So fast forward, there were many events that were held on the 8th floor. You could visit Santa at the holidays, but there was this really magnificent, I think, marriage of talent and local skills and abilities and vision and just individuals that were part of this team who envisioned, created, and were supported to create an even more immersive experience by taking the entire 8th floor auditorium and transforming it from the ground up into a storybook experience with master props and these incredible handmade figurines that were animatronic, which at the time we're talking 50 years ago, 40 years ago, 30 years ago. 

I mean, there weren't really video games, you know, there's nothing to compare to it. So, people would come from all over and they would choose these different stories and they'd start building these holiday shows in January and they would work tirelessly on them.

Joan
Sculptors, people who worked in animatronics, prop-masters, costume designers, just all of this magnificent talent coming together to manifest this incredible show that happened year after year after year after year for decades. 

And so Remember the Magic is a documentary about all of these things I'm describing to you. And it gets into great detail about the ideology of the holiday shows, the artists who are still with us, the artists who were responsible for much of the vision and just were like at the center of blowing this whole experience up. And then what happened when it went away and how the response was to that and where we are today. It also, I think, very touchingly features a particular family that was a big family that would go as children, and then they had children and then their children had children. And it really follows how this particular experience was really the center of all of their holiday memories.

Joan
And that was the case, I think, for so many people. So yes, this is a tremendous documentary and I'll give you kind of a fun fact that you won't pick up from the film, but it was 2012 and I had met Jack Edwards and he was a costume designer for the Guthrie Theater, which is a very large theater company in town. And he was tapped for these skills and abilities to be part of the holiday shows, HoliDazzle and many other things late in life. 

He had a retrospective at the Goldstein Museum, which was a celebration of all of his contributions, which was magnificent. And I met him then and I met another man named Tim Carroll who's in the film then as well. And we started conspiring. And at the time I was creating storefront projects, and I was doing things in my neighborhood, which again is a whole other story. And we worked together to create a pop-up gallery of Jack Edwards work.

Pat
A pop-up gallery is a temporary art exhibit set up in unconventional or short-term spaces, like a vacant storefront warehouse or outdoor location. It's designed to bring art to unexpected places and engage new audiences. Back to Joan.

Joan
And at that time, I'll bring this together, I'll get you to the finish line here. Daniel Pierce Bergen, who's the executive producer of TPT and who was senior executive producer of this show, came to see this pop-up and he was like, oh yeah, these holidays, like he brought his family, like he had experienced all of this in his young life and with his young family. And we spoke and he said, my goodness, this is such a tremendous story this needs to be told. 

So fast forward, literally all these years later, and I was really thrilled. It was fun to meet up with Daniel again. It was fun to be a part of this. Susan Marks was the producer. She worked tirelessly on this and did an amazing job. 

But he had said to me like, if we hadn't had that moment when you were doing storefronts and Whittier, I don't know that this would've been created today. So that was incredible to feel like that effort brought forth this. Yes. And now we have document that will be, I think, probably viewed by people in Minnesota and everywhere else for decades and decades.

Pat
Oh yeah. Wow. That's a great explanation. And I love hearing how, once again, Joan, you instigated something. What I love about your story is that when you're doing things, you don't go into it saying, I'm going to instigate something. It's like you're a magnet for good ideas. 

Okay. And also, listeners, if you could imagine an auditorium where each display is the quality of a Broadway stage in full lighting dimension, props, movable figures. It is breathtaking. 

Now Joan, I wanna ask you, why did you feel such a deep urgency to rescue and preserve these iconic holiday figures? What was going to happen to those figures and why did you step in?

Joan
You know, I'd been following when Macy's announced it was closing.

Pat
Will you tell listeners, you're talking about Macy's, we were talking Dayton's. Will you explain?

Joan
Yeah. So, Dayton's changed its name and rebranded to Marshall Fields. Target was born from Dayton's and became the parent company. 

Fast forward another decade, Marshall Fields close. Macy's assumes this retail giant department store in our downtown is there for very many years. The holiday shows start being repeated. Retail is transformed. Amazon is born, stuff is changing, downtown is changing, investments are changing. I am downtown all the time working with artists. 

We're doing storefronts. I have this whole professional life that's just crazy, like activating spaces that are in decline with artists and people. And so I have this a line to this experience that's happening at Macy's and kind of with bated breath saying, what's gonna happen? And I am made aware that the Historic Society's coming in, Macy's closing there. There's like different people who are sort of trying to think about what to do with all of this treasure.

Joan
If you could have seen, these were former offices that were filled with figurines and props and handmade treasure and artifacts. And the historic society took a few things. I believe the Hennepin History Museum took a few things, but they were very picky and there was so much there. There was a fire sale, and you'll see in the film and the figurines were just being put out on the retail floor just totally willy-nilly with price tag on them. And it was, you just went in there and you're like, what is happening? Like this is ghastly! How could anyone treat these objects this way? And so I conspired with Constance Crawford who was still there. She was the prop-master from way back in the day and she was still holding it down. And she, you know, really reached out to me, I think with a lot of trust and confidence that I would do something.

Joan
And so she's like, this is a situation. I don't know. So we went into action because of all the reasons you can imagine, my mind is saying these are not just objects from some production that just happened and it's gone and now we're gonna like reuse them and rep whatever. 

It was like, we don't have to know what we're gonna do with these. This is treasure, this is Minneapolis history, this is Minnesota history, this is our cultural history and we're gonna save it. 

And we don't have to have a vision for what comes next. We just need to act fast. And I think that archiving, preserving, preservation oftentimes happens in crisis. Yeah. Where something's happening and it's putting whatever it is at risk of being destroyed. And you gotta act fast. 

So, what I remember is honestly like getting a meeting with one of the senior regional managers who was like working out of Chicago, who made time to meet with me.

Joan
I just blazered up and I brought my like senior director from Hennepin Theater Trust, like boss lady persona and was like, here's some insurance. Here is a contract. We are willing to assume all of this property. What do you need to make this legitimate and to feel good about allowing us to take this off your hands? And that luckily that was the right approach. And I think that showing up in that way gave them confidence that like, oh, you know, maybe we don't realize how important this might be. 

And Hennepin Theater Trust at the time, if you think about it, owning and operating all of those historic theaters downtown really is in the business of preservation anyway. Like has preserved the history of these gorgeous theaters. So, what a perfectly aligned organization to say, give us those. So we showed up just in one day.

Joan
It was, I think three of it was a pretty skeletal crew. And we just went to work. We brought everything that we had to move art and objects, and we had a lot. We got a huge box truck we rented, and we just stuffed that box truck and all of our vehicles as full as we could get 'em. And really, and this is not in the movie either. We didn't have the space where the figurines are in today. At the time, Hennepin theatres was actually offing out of city center at the time. And so, I had to make a call to a business owner that I knew who was kind to me, who owned a vacant property in the warehouse district. And I told him, here's the story, please help me out. I don't know how long I'm gonna need to keep them here.

Joan
I will work to get them out as soon as I can, but they need a place to go and they need to be safe. And bless him. He was like, come on over, I'll open the door up for open the dock for you Joan. And we were able to storm in the old Foxfire Cafe, that's where the figurines sat for quite a while, until Hennepin Theater Trust moved into what is now the Hennepin Arts Building. So, it was a wild experience, but I never second guessed it. And I only kept moving. I just felt accountable. 'cause I was in this place and in this role and in this position, and I thought, this is just my job right now and I'm gonna do it and I'm gonna get it done. Come hell or high water.

Pat
You know, your real job description is the value of cultural legacies because you made it your job description. Joan, when you think about preserving something like Dayton's Holiday Magic, some people will say, well that's nice. It's nostalgia she's bringing back. Isn't that wonderful? But there's something deeper going on, some cultural thread that binds communities together. Will you talk about that?

Joan
I mean, I just got a whole chill through my whole body. Yes. Clearly that speaks to me so deeply on like a cellular level. And I don't know why, but the truth is, I believe in the power of artists to create change in so many different ways. And one of the ways that I have been so blessed to be part of the local arts community is by leveraging talented people to bring communities together and creating projects at times that feel overwhelmingly huge, but make these like really, really important impact in that moment in time and matter and build careers and make memories and create like connections with individuals that are lasting. And I just feel like there's so much alchemy and power and energy in bringing community together. And you know, as far as the importance of rescuing these figurines, yes, they're objects, they're objects, but they're objects that were not only made with so much love and care that shows, but they had this tremendous emotional impact on a broad swath of our community.

Joan
I don't think you have to understand what the future brings for these objects. I think what's important is what they represent for people and how they make people feel. I think that it models something because I also feel like we are always struggling to speak to the value of art and artists and why it's important and why it matters to invest in creative talent in our communities and what it can do. And so there's something really deep about prioritizing that situation in that moment for me. 

And you also see in the movie the Anderson Performing Arts Archive at the U of M, the University of Minnesota, one of the largest outdoor Big 10 campuses in the United States. They have this incredible, huge archive that's seven stories underground, humidity controlled, and it holds, I don't know how many, 10, 12, 14 different specific archives that are incredible. And Minneapolis and this region is really known over the course of decades as a huge cultural hotspot.

Joan
I mean, the Marx Brothers used to work on their shows like Broadway would stop here to like woodshed and like take time to get things ready for the coasts. 

I'm just saying Minneapolis is a heavy hitter culturally, artistically speaking over decades and much of that history has been lost, but much of that history has been preserved. And when you are standing in that archive and you realize the magnitude of it, it's a feeling that that's really difficult to describe that like so many people have come before you. Yeah. And have created such amazing legacies for us to build on.

Pat
Yeah. Now I wanna shift gears. You touched on it and knowing you, and you've talked about this before, you said that art can combat issues like poverty, loneliness, even homelessness. Can you share a moment where you saw this transformative power of art in action?

Joan
I can 

Pat
Oh, I know you can. Oh yeah, here we go.

Joan 
I'll share one of my most touching memories from bringing people together in this way use utilizing art and artists to make change in ways that maybe people don't really think about. So, trying to remember the year, it kind of doesn't matter. It's all a blur. I was working so much, but I think it was like 2016 potentially. And I was in my role at Hennepin Theater Trust. It was off the heels of making the large Bob Dylan mural that's in the middle of downtown Minneapolis. It's an icon now in downtown. And I was passionately determined to bring visibility to individuals who were coming downtown to receive emergency shelter. And I had spent a lot of time researching how many shelter beds there were, how many people were coming to downtown. The largest emergency shelter in the 5- state area is located one block from the Orphium Theater.

Joan
And what I uncovered was that there are as many emergency shelter beds as there are theater seats. And so in that particular district. People don't realize that. And I think I had spent a lot of time experiencing a lot of negative feedback that was centering the experience of people who were maybe coming downtown and were seeing human beings who were in crisis as a bother and as something that was making our downtown a negative experience. 

And I was working really hard to try to figure out how to bridge that experience with something that was meaningful and compassionate. And so, I approached the Salvation Army Harbor Light, and I asked them if we could take what was a service building across the street that was a budding, a surface parking lot, that was an area where there was an open air drug market. It was a place of great and deep sadness.

Joan
People who were using drugs who were maybe homeless or not you know, unsheltered were being preyed upon in that space. And it was extremely heartbreaking. And I, I just felt like there was something we could do that would make a difference. 

So I partnered with the Minneapolis Mad Dads, which is a black-owned outreach organization based in Minneapolis. And at the time we had developed a pretty close relationship anyway and they had a lot of very trusting relationships with folks who were receiving shelter there at Harbor Light. And we hired a couple of artists, Bianca Pettis and Aaron Sayer, and we hosted workshops inside of the Salvation Army and we fed folks and we gathered and we talked about that space and we asked people how they felt about the space. And we asked people if there's something that they'd wanna do differently.

Joan
And they told us that the space was dangerous and that it felt horrible and that they wanted it to be cleaner and safer and, and they told us what they wanted to see. We had an exercise where they were able to create words that they wanted on the mural and all to say that we then embarked. I was able to raise some money for it. That's a whole other story. 

We embarked on, I think, which was like a two and a half week process of cleaning up the space and creating two murals, one on either side. And every day we fed everybody. We got people involved, we got people out there, we had barbecues. If we didn't have time or capacity to do the barbecues, we would still bring bag lunches. 

People started helping, people were cleaning, a specific gentleman went out somehow into community and found a Weed Wacker and was like going around and cleaning up all the weeds around the fences and just making everything look nice.

Joan
And every day it just felt like the place was getting more filled with love, more filled with care, more filled with belonging. And it was authentic. It wasn't anybody coming in and cleaning up the space and displacing anyone. It was happening from the ground up in that community with and for that community. 

And we worked with the kids who are adjacent at YouthLink who are also experiencing unsheltered homelessness about what would a celebration look like? And we workshopped that with them. Like, how do we celebrate this mural? 

We wanted to find a way to bring in the young people too, because we found that the adults and the young people, while they don't mix the shelters for obvious reasons, they care deeply about each other, and they're concerned for each other and they wanna have a positive impact for each other. So the young people said, you know what?

Joan 
It was August. They're like, none of us can afford to go to the state fair, but we'd love to if we could. And they're like, couldn't we just create the state fair here? And so myself and my colleagues and youth leadership and Harbor Light, we all came together with other organizations and we created state fair in the city and this was our big celebration. 

We had a drum line of kids that came through and played drums. We had live music and DJs. We had tons of games and prizes and free food. And it was just magical. And we had an open stage for youth to showcase their talents. And I am finally at the moment that I'm going to share the memory that seared my brain for the rest of my life, which was standing next to that gentleman who had found that Weed Wacker and who had been with us every day helping and cleaning and making the space better in order to have this celebration.

Joan
And these two young women were doing a dance routine to a beautiful song. It was touching and it was very heartfelt. And I looked at his face and he was crying and I thought, oh no, you know, like, what's with the tears? Are you okay? And he just looked at me and he said, Joan, I never would have believed you if you would've told me that something so beautiful could happen in a space that held so much sadness and tears. And I'll always see his face whenever I embark on anything that feels too hard, that feels unimaginable or unapproachable or too difficult or too complicated. I'll always see his face. And I'll always believe that like when you authentically step into the community and you are part of that community and you are capable of making a positive impact within for people, that it is always worth doing. 

Joan
And it may not always be successful. And a lot of times you're gonna find a lot, I mean, I cannot even tell you how many problems there were with that particular project. The funding was all up. Nobody wanted to, nobody wanted to fund it. Nobody wanted to take, nobody thought it could be done. Nobody thought that it was gonna be positive or that it was gonna work out. People didn't wanna invest all these things.  

And yet we made it happen. And it won Best Social Practice Public Art from Americans for the Arts that year. And it won best public improvement from the greening awards over $120 million worth of investments in downtown. And it cost 12 grand. So can you imagine having a seat at the table after all that went down when I was, I was treading really light into those boardrooms. Like, okay, I was not gonna, like, I wasn't gonna gloat, but

Pat
Now Joan, I don't mean to be personal, but do you look for impossible situations?

Joan
I mean, no, of course not. Like I, of course I don't, I think I don't question what's possible and I start from, yes, and I let my heart lead. And I don't, I mean, sometimes I guess I take on things that are so unimaginable that it may be to my own detriment in a way. 

And I think over time, you know, I'm growing, I'm older now, I'm, I'm realizing that yeah, maybe there should be some limitations on, you know, how much you take on. But at the same time, what a deep privilege to be able to love your neighbors in such meaningful ways. Yeah. And to be able to forge relationships with people like you and people, other people who just have these huge, just this wealth of talent and care and intellect and expertise. And to marry that with something that's just loving, it's just a privilege. It's hard to say no to big ideas.

Pat
Yeah. My dad always said:  “It's never a question of if it is always a matter of how.”

Joan
That's real.

Pat
I think for anybody who dares to make a difference, that idea of, well it's not been done before or should we do that? I can't get funding. But somehow there's ways to get things done. And you certainly are one of those people. 

And what I love is how you can dance between the boardroom and as you say, I blazered up wearing my blazer. And then how you go into communities where you just roll up your sleeves, you're in your jeans, you're working with people. Yeah. 

I think you are like a chameleon Joan that you can adapt to just about any situation. And when I say adapt, the people in that community or where, or the boardroom, they always feel at ease with you. And I think that's, that's one of your gifts you make people feel listened to and at ease. So when you say, oh, I have this little idea, oh man, they're right with you Joan. They're right with you.

Joan
Thank you very much. That's really generous. But I think that we used to kind of joke and say that I kind of went from the bullhorn to the boardroom and that that was a very difficult transition for me. And it still is. And I, it is hard to understand why people who you, you know, make some generalizations about, when you think about people who are in positions of power, right? Like are people who are extraordinarily wealthy. I mean, when you talk about some of the people who own portfolios in downtown, they're not valuing community in the same ways that you are. Okay, let's just face it. So having to appeal to them with a value proposition that makes sense for them was hard. And it was hard I think at times to realize that they actually did care about what it was that I was doing, just from a very different perspective.

Joan
And I just knew that it had to be done, that this was what had to be done. That in order to create impact, you have to be able to align with and have a shared purpose with people from very many places and very many backgrounds and with much different incentivizations. 

 So yes, I mean, I remember a new president coming onto Hennepin Theater Trust once, and him coming to speak to Goldman Sachs representatives who were paying for the Bob Dylan mural back in its early stages in its development that was a private commission. And he didn't know me very well. And unfortunately, we had a contested relationship, but at the time we were getting to know each other. And I went to this board meeting to talk about the budget and the timeline and what we were gonna do and how it was gonna happen and who the artist was gonna be and all the different activities and all the things, and just kind of pitched the deal and get it sealed up.

Joan
Did that and then went down to the street level to walk back to our offices and was basically on every block being stopped and hugged by people that were standing on the street, you know, because I was out there all the time, and we were doing all sorts of programming and we were hosting celebrations and making things happen. 

And oftentimes I was the art lady and I love what you're doing with the place and all this feedback. And I remember walking across the street and this gentleman like hollering at me, Joan, are we getting the party next week? Is it happening next week? And I was like, yeah. And then he just shouted, thank you Joan, we need you like this loud, you know, he is trying to make me laugh and, but I think the president just saw me pitch and seal the deal on a really big high profile public art project and then saw me walking back to work and seeing all of that authentic connectivity to community. And he said to me, he said, I don't think I've ever seen anybody who could do that. He is like, in all my years, like I don't, I don't think I've ever witnessed anything like that. And I, it's a, it's a privilege, right? It's a, but it's also like where would I rather be? Where do you think I'd rather be

Pat
Yeah 

Joan
But sometimes you gotta take that elevator and get up and  blazer up and be like, this is what's gonna happen gentlemen. You know, like, I dunno.

Pat
Oh yeah. Now the public often thinks about art as being like impressionism or they think of the greats like Rembrandt, DaVinci, Artemesia Gentileschi, all these famous artists and they say, oh yeah, that's art. 

What kind of shift do we need to make as a society to maybe see artists differently, maybe seeing them as agents for change, that they can make a difference? What has to happen in a public mindset, do you think?

Joan
I would love if community engaged artists were seen as holding as much talent as the masters in their particular medium. That would be so cool. Because I'll tell you something, if I had to choose between sitting down with folks who work within and four of their communities to make impactful change versus the magnificent experience that is seeing some of the great works from the past, I'd rather be with that community engaged artist that's doing something incredible with creativity to make a positive change. And their brush strokes, which are incredible strategic, are able to do things with their skills and abilities and community that create changes for a whole lifetime. Yeah. 

And when we look at what we face as communities, the difficulties we face with public health, with safety, I mean, you don't think about how art can impact this. I'll, I'll tell you one more small quip, when I was doing all my work in downtown, and I go back to this because it was a very active time for me and I've done a lot of other things since then, but there's just some really meaningful vignettes from that time.

Joan
I was putting out chess boards along the avenue and I was going to safety meetings and then eventually leading them. But I, you know, would have the chief of police and I would have the safety commissioner and I would have all these really, really high-level folks that were as concerned about public safety as I was.  

But I was approaching it like in this way that I think that they really discredited at the time. And they even admitted that over time. And I'll never forget this gentleman saying to me, Joan, when I first saw what you were doing by putting chess boards out and by feeding people and by having these block parties and closing down these surface parking lots, I, I didn't think that there was a public safety aspect until I literally witnessed a person in downtown who was notorious for criminal behavior and who was sitting at the chess board playing chess happily. And I saw him so much differently in that moment than all of the months before with all of the, you know, incidents that had happened. And I realized like his humanity was changed. 

Pat
You know, Joan, as you were talking, it's clear to me that brush strokes for you are heartbeats. That's where it is. That is exactly where it is for you. So I wanna ask, how do you see the relationship between art advocacy and activism evolving in the years to come?

Joan
Well, I'm gonna put my money down on the youth Yep. And I really always have, I  mean I, I laugh these days because I'm like youth and seniors. Those are the groups that I just wanna really give my heart and soul to seniors for obvious reasons. They hold so much wisdom. They are the arbitrators of like everything that's come before and they're magical in so many ways. And then there's this youth experience and investing in our young people as leaders, as decision makers, resourcing them with skills and abilities to lead us into the future. They're our future. And I believe that we think about how we can impact youth in meaningful ways and community. 

And I think first, and foremost youth know how to lead already. They don't necessarily need us to, you know, figure that out for them. But I think providing those safe platforms where they're comfortable to be their authentic selves and organize and lead their community. We had an open stage for a lot of years out on Hennepin and we would have an open mic for our young people. And just a few weeks ago, one of those young people reached out to personally invite me to their upcoming performance at the or way

Pat
Listeners the Ordway Center For the Performing Arts. That's a big deal in St. Paul. Wow.

Joan
I know I mean it doesn't surprise me when I saw that 16-year-old young person up there MCing, of course I was like, jaw a gap and thought future leader <laugh>. Yep. There's the leader and let's pour our resources into this magnificently talented young person. And lo and behold, here they are holding stages with hundreds and thousands of people speaking truth to power from their perspective. And that to me is like, I cannot even believe that I had any minute part in that particular journey. And I'm so proud. So yeah, I hope I can continue to be surrounded by young people. I do a youth program every summer, every Thursday we're gonna be doing open mics out there this summer, it's our fourth year. And being surrounded by young people and being able to learn from them and being able to like skill share with them and see what they come up with is, it's really one of my greatest joys for sure.

Pat
Well, it's obvious because when you talk about the things that you do, there is a joy that bursts out of you and it's really quite catchy. Joan now with the public TV documentary, Remember The Magic bringing Dayton's back into the spotlight. How do you hope the story inspires the next generation of artists and very importantly cultural historians?

Joan
Oh wow. Well last night I had a meeting downtown and I had the amazing experience to be able to go through HolliDazzle, which is now on Nicolette Mall. And I have to tell you, HolliDazzle is this decades old holiday celebration that had been in downtown on Nicolette. There used to be a big parade. HolliDazzle is still a holiday celebration. 

During the pandemic in the uprising it moved to Loring Park, but it is back on Nicolette. And I was so excited to see how amazing it was and how transformative it was. And there's light displays and there's a gigantic Yeti that you can like that's all illuminated that you can move. If you pull the tether, there's like five artist markets, they're just packed. The old Dayton's building is filled with local artist work in total Dayton style. Like everything is gorgeous and just, it's all set up perfectly and beautiful. There's multiple craft markets, there's a rollerskating rink. I mean, I always said like this is our downtown and can we not just take a note from the past.

Pat
There you go.

Joan
Like immersive experiences that amplify local artists and what we make here and what we do here and the talents that you can't find anywhere else can that be the showcase, uh, for our community celebrations. And the answer is yes. And there's many different things. There's many different things happening all over the place. But I bring this up specifically because to kind of bring it back to Remember The Magic and to bring it back to like how artists can make a difference. I mean the retail experience in any downtown has gone through a hugely impactful decline. Yeah. It's, there's no downtown that can't say that that hasn't happened and that they've had to work towards figuring out how to transform it yet again. And I'm like artists. Yeah. It's like I just wanna ring a bell and be like, no amount of planning, no amount of strategy. And I'm not saying that all those things aren't important, obviously that they are, and lots of investments need to be made in many different ways, but investing in artists and the arts in just creating these platforms. Yeah. So we can celebrate that continues to be and will continue to be transformational.

Pat
Now you are kind of answering my next question. What advice would you give to communities on the brink of losing their own cultural treasures? You started talking about it with this last statement. What would you say to them?

Joan 

Well, I think it's really important to find the helpers back to the Mr. Rogers quip. Like it's, and I know that's in a very different context, but you know, when crisis is happening, when bad things are happening, find the helpers. I think in this instance, Constance Crawford knew that I would help. And I think that Tim Carroll, who is aware of the immense resource of the archive on the U of M campus, was also aware that they were gonna preserve. They, they were very interested in that. 

And so, are there archives in your communities? Are there people who are willing to hold treasure? Is there community members who might need some support to be able to figure out where their treasure might live on? There's preservation societies, there's groups and people who care deeply. But if you don't know about them and you're not actively seeking that, I think there's, you know, you just, how could you know to connect?

Joan
And it's true that I think in very many communities there are connectors, you know, there are people who simply are connectors. And I think finding the connectors to say this is an important part of our cultural history and we cannot destroy it. And it's not like it hasn't happened in Minneapolis a lot. There was the metropolitan opera is an example. It happens, places get destroyed, but places also get saved and things also get preserved. So there's a chance that what you feel might hold value for your community might, there might be someone and something or some organization out there that agrees with you and is willing to do what it takes to make sure that piece of your cultural history is preserved.

Pat
I have to ask you, what drives this passion in you for fighting for art artists, cultural histories, legacies, and how has it changed you along the way?

Joan
Well, I've been a nurse for almost 30 years and I love being a nurse. And my grandma was a nurse and my grandma was like the most compassionate, loving, amazing person. She was larger than life to me. And she was always in community. I mean, she literally would rove from, she had a lot of kids, she would rove from one family to the next family. And I would remember like waking up in my childhood bed and I could smell cinnamon rolls and I'd be like, grandma's here, you know, grandma.

Pat
Yeah.

Joan
She made a huge impression on my life. And I didn't even come to know her accomplishments until I was much older. But I have such pride in that nursing background, and I have had such an amazing privilege to leverage my nursing career, to allow me to live in many different places and do many different things. So I've worked in so many different communities as a healthcare provider and I've always been surrounded by artists. My brothers are artists, artists are part of my family. It's always been a part of my life, which is really lucky.  

And so it all kind of intersects in this really interesting way that when you sort of look back, it's like, yeah, I have the skills and abilities to, to be an art administrator and a community organizer. But I think at the heart of it is kind of what you said, that I just love people deeply. I mean, I love my neighbors and I love people and I love opportunity. And I think that as I get older, I'm probably just gonna have to like make some grace for perhaps my physical limitation. I'm not gonna be able to lung as many groceries from my car to the folding table and things like that. But it's okay. Like there'll be kids around, right?

Pat
Oh yeah. Well, when you speak of grandmothers, I share that with you with my grandmother Rafaela, all four foot 11 of her was one of the most joyful people I have ever met, known and loved. And she had a hard life, but she always found the joy from day to day. And when you have a relationship with a grandmother like that, it leaves a deep imprint. It really does. I love your grandma's story. I love it.

 So Joan, we've been talking about cultural histories and legacies decades from now. When people look at your work, oh yeah. Joan Voderbruggen. What do you think they'll say about your legacy?

Joan
I guess what I would hope that they would feel was that I meaningfully and truly and authentically cared and that I was happy to be able to be a part of my community in such interesting ways. And that it was a joy and a privilege to be able to work alongside my neighbors and the artist community in such interesting and really meaningful ways. And it's just the greatest privilege of life is to be able to be part of something and to feel a sense of belonging and to be able to share that sense of belonging, especially with and for those who really need it.

Pat
So as, as we wrap up, I just wanna say Dayton's eighth floor auditorium wasn't just a holiday display, it was a cherished jaw dropping tradition that brought people together, weaving generations of memories through its spectacular wonderlands. And this documentary beautifully captures how deeply people connected to this event, making it more than just a shopping experience. It was a cultural touchstone. 

Dayton's wasn't just a store, it was a spark. A place where tradition, creativity, and community intertwined to create magic. 

And that brings me to you, Joan. Your work to save the figurines is yet another example of your unstoppable vision In overdrive and limitless passion, you took that Dayton spark and transformed it into a mission to honor and preserve Minnesota's rich cultural history, ensuring this cherished tradition continues to inspire for generations to come.  

Now Joan, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Your work proves that art isn't just about saving the past, it's about sparking connections, building bridges, and shaping what's next. Whether it's rescuing, holiday figurines or empowering communities. Joan, you remind us what's possible when we dare to remember the magic and reimagine what it can become. Thank you so much.

Joan
You are so generous and talented. I don't even know what to say. I'm not gonna be able to fit my head in the screen, Pat, but I thank you. I thank you so much. 

You know, I have to just mention like this podcast is really tremendous and the love and care that you bring to it is unbelievable. And so to be any small part of this particular legacy right here, right now is huge for me. So thank you so much. Thank you for your time and your care and your brilliance and your vision.

Pat
Thank you. And you kind of remind me of this expression: “Any way you stuff that bird it’s still a turkey.”  Joan Vorderbruggen, you are you. And any way we look at you, you just go out and you make wonderful things happen. Thank you for joining us today. It was my honor to have you on. So thank you.

Joan
Thank you, Pat. The 90th episode! yeah,

Pat
It's number nine- oh. I  like to think of it in urban vernacular terms, “continuing to kick and take names.”

 Okay, that's a wrap. If today's episode made you think or smile, pass the word along to a friend and hit subscribe. Bye.