Fill To Capacity (Where Heart, Grit and Irreverent Humor Collide)

Gen Z Unplugged: Why Dumb Phones Make Smart Sense

• Pat Benincasa • Episode 113

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Plot twist: Gen Z, first to grow up with smartphones and social media 24/7- decide now to unplug? 

Meet Olivia Telecky, a 20-year-old Minnesota college student whose article “The Dumb Phone Trend—And Why I Bought Into It” made waves. 

With honesty and humor, Olivia explains why she turned her iPhone into a dumb phone—and what that choice reveals about a generation pushing back on doom-scrolling, questioning the pressure to stay connected, and looking for breathing room in an anxious, uncertain world. She also opens up about Gen Z’s growing pessimism about the future—jobs, housing, even retirement—and how it shapes their choices today.

For some Gen Zers, stepping back from the screen isn’t losing connection—it’s finding a truer one.

(Quick heads-up, friends:  Zoom gremlins snuck into this recording. You might hear a little ‘tin-can radio’ effect in spots, but trust me—the conversation shines right through.)

Today's episode is brought to you by the Joan of Arc Scroll Medal, a beautiful brass alloy medal, designed by award-winning artist, Pat Benincasa. This uniquely shaped medal is ideal for holiday or as a special occasion gift!    Visit www.patbenincasa-art.com

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Please Note: The views expressed by our guests do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcaster.

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Pat:

Fill To Capacity where heart grit and irreverent humor collide. A podcast for people too stubborn to quit and too creative not to make a difference.

Pat:

Hi, I am Pat Benincasa and welcome to Fill To Capacity. You know, I gotta say for me, podcasting is pure creativity. I get to sit down with fascinating people and have conversations that surprise me every time I've said it before. Podcasting is like portrait painting, not with paint and brushes, but with words. And every guest adds a new portrait to the gallery of voices and lives. We all get to walk through together. And now back to our regularly scheduled program! 

Episode 113, "Gen Z Unplugged: Why Dumb Phones Make Smart Sense." Today's guest is Olivia Telecky, a keen Gen Z voice whose recent article, "The Dumb Phone Trend, and Why I Bought Into It," caught my eye. By the way, Gen Z was born between 1996 and 2012, and as Olivia writes in her article, "since the first iPhone was released in 2007, many of us grew up with iPhones being a household item. "

Pat:

Olivia is a 20-year-old Minnesota college student studying political science and she already has two years of newspaper writing under her belt. She's from a city just northwest of Minneapolis. And this fall she's packing her bags for Cork Ireland to continue her studies. In her article, she does a deep dive into why more young people are walking away from smartphones, exploring everything from burnout to nostalgia, to the aesthetics of the flip phone revival. And she writes with a kind of clarity and honesty that feels rare and refreshing. So with that said, Olivia, welcome to Fill To Capacity.

Olivia:

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate all of your kind words as well. I try my best to be honest, but you know, sometimes it works out better than others.

Pat:

Got it. And I just wanna say that you are here as Olivia, not as the official spokesperson for all Gen Zers. This is your lane, your voice, and we'll let the rest of Gen Z fend for themselves today.

Olivia:

Sounds good. There's a lot of Gen Z'ers that I have not met, so I don't think I'm the best representation for all of 'em.

Pat:

Got it. So in your article you point out that Gen Z is the only generation whose social media use has actually gone down since 2021. Why do you think your generation is stepping back when so many others are still going strong?

Olivia:

Well, you know, I think it depends on the different generations. I don't think there's one reason for why it's just Gen Z. Stepping back, I think for Gen Alpha, which is the one right after Gen Z, it would be difficult for them to step back because they are still really young. So they're more in that sort of era, where they're social media. But for the older generations, I think older generations are less aware of their social media usage than Gen Z because social media is kind of seen as a young person's thing, as a young person's problem. But it's really for everyone and overuse can happen to anyone. And I think being an adult while it was introduced, probably made people think like, oh, this isn't gonna be a problem for me. Especially when the media always talks about teenagers in their cell phones, teenagers on social media, you don't really see a lot of articles about 40 year olds on Instagram and that sort of thing. So I think Gen Z is simply more aware of the problem than other generations. And I think we're lucky that we are so aware. But that is kind of the downside of focusing on young people in their phones. Is that sure problem for everyone.

Pat:

Now you're kind of touching on this, you grew up with smartphones as household items. How do you think that's shaped the way Gen Z relates to technology? You kids grew up with it.

Olivia:

Yeah, so I think that's something that's kind of weird for older people to wrap their heads around is they can remember a time when things were different. And for me, that time never existed. So I think it's hard when people are like, oh, you know, just step away, just stop because it's something that we've been around for our entire lives, you know? Yeah. That's like saying like, oh, just stop using the oven. Like we've used to use fires to cook our food all the time. Just do that. It's weird to kind of say, wait, but this has been around my whole life. To imagine a time when it isn't around,

Pat:

You know, you hit a really interesting point because I'll fess up on that older generation and when we communicated... When you applied for college, you waited for the letter in the mail, snail mail, and when you had important things to discuss with people, you either called on the wall telephone, oh gosh, I'm dating myself. Or you waited for the mail to come and now instant you go to your Mac or your laptop and next thing you know there's your answer waiting for you in email. So you really do hit an important distinction here. Now you've heard all your life that smart phones mess with sleep, raise anxiety, and maybe even dulls focus. Was there a moment when you thought for yourself, I need to change this, I gotta do something?

Olivia:

Yeah, so that happened while I was writing the article. I was always really pessimistic about that because I have anxiety and I have ADHD. So when people would say, oh, it's the smartphones, I would just be like, oh, according to my doctor it's not. So I would always be really pessimistic like, well that's not gonna fix anything. That's not gonna change anything for me. And while I can say my A DHD was not cured by stepping away from social media, I never really thought, but it can help though. It could make these problems worse. And so I think I was always just like, well, they just don't get it. And then while I was writing the article and looking into it, I was like, well mabey, I should just try it, you know? And by trying it is when I was like, oh, I get it now.

Pat:

That's pretty gutsy on your part to experiment like that and be willing to try a different way of being.

Olivia:

Well, I mean it was pretty simple to do and I think the thing that made it less gutsy for me was that I could stop at any time. I didn't get rid of my smartphone. I didn't completely, I didn't buy a flip phone. I still had my smartphone. I just disabled all of the apps

Pat:

And we're gonna get into that, 'cause that was really an interesting strategy.

Olivia:

Well, thank you. But that made it so I could reverse it at any time.

Pat:

Okay. Going in a different direction Now, you know what retro means, bringing back styles, looks and gadgets from the past. But do you know the word neutral? That's when you take something old school, like a flip phone or a record player and give it a modern update. So it works for today's world think vintage style with the current tech under the hood. So Olivia, you say dumb phones are more secure last longer cost less, but you also mentioned the neutral aesthetic as part of the appeal. Do you think people are choosing the flip phones more for practicality or for style?

Olivia:

You know, I think it really depends on the person. I think having a cool style definitely helps with the practical elements. I mean, personally I think more people are doing it for the style of it. But I mean, whatever gets the job done, there's nothing wrong with buying something because you like to look look of it, especially if you have the money for it. And if this sort of neutral style helps people that are struggling with smartphones and want something new, then yeah, it doesn't matter how you get there as long as you got there.

Pat:

Exactly. I wanna shift gears and talk about Gen Z and pessimism. A fortune report says Gen Z is the most pessimistic generation that we've had in quite a while. 71% have a negative view of the country. Working nation found that a third think they'll never have home ownership or it's out of their reach. I think the number for that was like 70% believe they won't have home ownership. And then McKinsey points to the pandemic, the economic instability and inflation as big factors leaving Gen Z, anxious and uncertain. Olivia, when you hear those numbers, do they match what you see among your peers? I mean, how do you think that mindset shapes the choices your generation is making?

Olivia:

Yeah, those numbers absolutely sound right. I don't think I personally have met someone from my generation that feels like, oh yeah, I'm going to own a home. That's not even something that's really talked about. And if it is, it's like, oh, you know, when I'm older and maybe after working my job for 10, 20 years, I'll be able to start renting a house. And, but I think a major reason for that is just growing up specifically. I was born in 2005, so the big 2008 market crash, that's my entire childhood. So growing up it was always, the housing market is terrible. And you see all of these articles about how the average age of first time home buyers is going up and up. And when you're growing up around that, it makes it seem really normal. And so I think a lot of people from Gen Z are like, oh yeah, like that's just not gonna happen for me.

Olivia:

And I think that really forms the way that we make decisions because if you don't think something's possible, then it's never going to be, you know, I think the bad thing about pessimism is that it's an acceptance of things that shouldn't be accepted. Like we shouldn't accept the fact that one generation, it's harder for them to buy houses than the generation before. Like that's backwards. That's not the way it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be better. We're supposed to be making progress. So I think it's bad to kind of just say, well that's not gonna happen. But I also understand it's hard to keep believing when everything's sort of going against that.

Pat:

Yeah. And you raise a good point. As older generation, I've always thought that we make it better for the next. I mean that to me is the promise from one generation to the next. So this frustration that home ownership or you have to have two jobs to make rent for your apartment, seems especially frustrating. But I also like the fact that you're saying just because it's that way doesn't mean we accept it.

Olivia:

Yes. And maybe that's naive to just say, no, nope, I'm not gonna accept this. That's the only way I can look at it and retain a little bit of positivity.

Pat:

I so appreciate your attitude with hope and positivity. There's room to make change.

Olivia:

Well thank you, I appreciate that.

Pat:

Okay, in your article you explain anemoia and that's A-N-E-M-O-I-A , anemoia is that nostalgia for a time you never actually lived through- a bittersweet longing for the good old days that happened before you were born. You link it to why flip phones resonate with Gen Z. And you even say you feel it yourself longing for those better days you never experienced. Why do you think this feeling runs so deep for your generation and for you personally?

Olivia:

Yeah, so I think it's really interesting because it's pretty common for people to be like, oh, things were a lot better when I was younger. That's a pretty common sentiment. But I think for my generation, it also correlates with, you know, this huge technology shift. Like when the iPhone was becoming a household item, when social media was becoming more prevalent, there was a lot of news stories about like, this has changed everything forever. It was the big shift. So I think pairing that huge technological shift that nothing is gonna be the same again with the rose colored glasses of oh, everything was a lot better back then. You're naturally gonna be curious like what was it like? And I also think personally, every single story that I heard, all the best ones from my parents started with, oh, back before smartphones, back before social media.

Olivia:

So that was always like all the fun things happened before social media and smartphones happened. So I think for me, that made me be like, well, I kind of wanna live in that era. But also like with media and film, we have a lot of movies from before, smartphones, from before social media, that it's really relevant to the plot that social media doesn't exist. Like "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" could not happen if Instagram existed because he would be all over everyone's social media and everyone would know that he was skipping school. So all of these fun things, like I think it's normal to see a movie and be like, oh, I'd wanna live there, I'd wanna experience that. But a lot of the like huge films happened before smartphones, before social media. So I think that just paired with the curiosity of, well what was it like before? This huge thing really makes kind of a, a recipe for wanting to go back and wanting to experience that.

Pat:

I love how you bring in the movies to make that point. You're so right now we talked about anemoia, that pull towards a time you never lived in, but there's another powerful force that keeps people glued to their phones or their laptops or Macs, FOMO- F-O-M-O, fear of missing out for some it's a breaking story, an invite or the next viral TikTok. Do you think FOMO, fear of missing out still drives Gen Z? Or are you starting to see that the fear of missing out isn't worth the mental cost?

Olivia:

I don't think it's about the fear of missing out anymore. I think it's more about actually missing out. So I think it used to be like, you know, you see something and you're like, oh, I wish I was there. Like you see something on Instagram like, oh no, I could have been there. And I think now it's becoming, people are a lot more aware, like Instagram is fake. Everything you post, even someone who tries to be honest, like your posts are gonna be kind of fake. You're choosing the best photos from the best events and it's heavily curated. So I don't think it's as much of a thing or personally I found it's not super relevant to see something on Instagram and be like, oh, I wish I were there. You know, because we've kind of come to the realization that it's not actually how it looks.

Olivia:

But actually missing out does happen when you're not on social media. I wasn't on any social media until high school and that wasn't like my parents, that was me choosing that. And I actually missed out on a lot of things because people would make plans on Snapchat and if you don't have Snapchat then you're just not a part of those plans, not a part of those conversations. So I think we talk about, oh, missing that invite, you know, on social media. But if you miss the invite, you're never gonna go to the party. Yeah. So I think people talk about fear of missing out as like, oh, it's this thing that you were never gonna get invited. There's actually a big aspect of your friends. We're all in a group chat talking about going to the movies. If you're not in that group chat, you're not going to the movies with them. I think that gets missed a lot.

Pat:

Another aspect of social media, we mostly see the highlight reel, our wins, our children's milestones, the smiling group photos at family gatherings. These posts capture real joy, but they also show just one slice of life as if that were the constant. What rarely makes it into the feed are the in-between moments, the struggles, the silence, the ordinary days. And yet those moments are just as real and just as much a part of who we are. But maybe that's the unspoken agreement of social media, the social contract, we all buy into that what we share is the best face forward, even if it isn't the full picture, we all kind of know it. And I think that you're pretty savvy in understanding that that's not really what it is.

Olivia:

I think that's less of a me thing and more of a, I think that's just a lot of people from my generation, we've grown up with this. And so you just realize that's how it is. So like me and my friends, you talk about everyone sitting and laughing around the table. Me and my friends were taking photos on our camping trip and I was like, oh, let's pretend to laugh. And so for the photo, we were pretending to laugh and we were actually saying things like, oh, I hate you so much. Oh my gosh. Like as a joke, we don't actually hate each other. But it's funny because I think one of my friends posted it on Instagram, you see those photos, you see us laughing, you're like, my gosh, they're having a great time. And the things we're saying, are you like not so much Like not so much

Pat:

Now in your article you were, you really went to town on Instagram and you said at one at one point it was fun. You went on there for hairstyles, makeup, you know, stuff like that. But the one time you, uh, you posted about workouts and suddenly as you put it, and I thought this was great, you said suddenly you're in the alpha male pipeline or the algorithm pushes skinny culture and weight loss ads on your site. And overall you start seeing the divisive posts were getting boosted because they get more viewers. And so you, you said how your feed shifted from lighthearted to toxic. Will you speak a little bit more about that?

Olivia:

Yes. So I play rugby and I'm new to the sport. I just joined last year and I was like, oh, I wanna find some ab workouts. So you know, I just look up ab workouts on Instagram 'cause I wanted to see videos 'cause I tried Googling it and I couldn't understand from photos what they were doing. So I'm like ab workouts and all of them were workouts for a flat stomach workouts to lose weight. And it's like, that's not what my goal is. So I would be like, okay, ab workouts for muscle and then it would go to all these crazy videos. I saw one that said, and I'm gonna butcher the quote, but there was one guy who said, well, working out is harder for men than it is for women because men have to go against gravity. Do they think gravity doesn't affect women?

Olivia:

Like what? Whoa. And it went so fast immediately from just typing in ab workout, wanting to have stronger abs to just, oh, you wanna be skinny? Oh you're a man and working out is harder for you than women. And it's like, this isn't what I was, I wasn't searching for it. I wasn't trying to end up there. And I think that is so harmful because you can search something so lighthearted and end up on these just crazy extremes. Yeah, I think that's how a lot of these extreme attitudes come. You know, I don't think people grow up thinking, oh, gravity doesn't affect women. But then they look up something lighthearted and they see this. And I mean a lot of people saw it and we're like, this is crazy. This is ridiculous. This is stupid. You know? But what about the people that believed that it's a whole can of worms? And that's part of why I was just getting so sick of it because I would look up something so lighthearted and instead of finding something fun, I found something that ruined my week.

Pat:

So you turn off your iPhone from eight in the morning till seven at night. Well, since you've done that, how has your life changed? Like have you had more time for reading or hanging out with friends without constantly looking at your phone? What's changed?

Olivia:

I found that even before that I didn't like looking at my phone while hanging out with friends. I just, I always felt rude doing it. And I know some people don't see it as rude, but I just, it feels mean. It feels mean to look at your phone while there's someone sitting across from you. But I did find that would kind of be my excuse to not hang out with friends. And I didn't even realize it until those things were all off. I was like, oh shoot, I've got an hour to kill. What am I gonna do with this time? And it really forced me to go out and see people. 'cause otherwise I would just be like, oh, I'm just gonna hang in my dorm and do nothing for an hour because that's kind of how I am.

Olivia:

But I was really forcing myself to get out there just because there wasn't the easy alternative in my pocket. But it also gave me time. Like I have such a long list of like movies and TV shows that I really wanna watch that I just haven't been watching because they're too long. Even though I would spend like three hours scrolling on Instagram, all those videos are 30 seconds. So 30 seconds versus an hour movie like now, I was like, okay, I can actually watch these movies or I can read this book. I kept doing this thing where I would start a book and then I wouldn't finish it and I would just start a new book. So I was reading four books at the same time and then I was like, well since I can't kill time on my phone, might as well just read this book I've been reading. And I actually finished it. Oh, amazing. And I really liked that book.

Pat:

Now you're careful to say that your approach isn't a right solution for everyone. What do you hope people, especially, uh, younger people, take away from your experiment? Even if they're not ready to limit their phones? What do you want them to take away from this discussion?

Olivia:

Simply that it is a discussion simply that it's something to think about. I think a lot of people, the things that we're told about smartphones are quite extreme. And I know personally that's what turned me off of limiting my phone at all. Because it was all so extreme. It was all, you're never able to sleep if your phone's on and it's like, well my phone's on and I can sleep, so it must not be a problem. You know, if your phone's by you and you're trying to sleep, you might lose 20 minutes. It's not as nuanced when people take the extremes. And I think the extremes are what's talked about a lot. So I want people to focus on, this could be a little shift, it might not be dramatic, and that's okay. It's okay if you try this and it doesn't change your life, that's fine.

Olivia:

That means that you have a pretty positive relationship with your phone. That's awesome. It's okay to listen to this and be like, yeah, I don't really see any of that. I don't feel any of that. Amazing. Good for you. And I put that at the end of my article, like, if you have a positive relationship with your phone, if you're not finding you're having these problems, keep doing what you're doing. You're doing better than I am. It's not gonna be something crazy. I think a lot of people think that no, social media solves every problem. There's no more problems in the world. But social media can be good for some things. They can be good for communicating with people. I'm studying abroad in Cork social media is how I'm gonna be able to communicate. 'cause international calling is so expensive, but sending a snap is free. So there are a lot of positives that don't get talked about enough because of all the fear mongering and the scary, like, this is terrible. You're ruining your life. It's very nuanced. It's just a discussion. And if you find something great and if you don't find something also great,

Pat:

Well said.

Olivia:

Oh, thank you.

Pat:

Olivia, I just love your approach. You seem to have your feet on the ground and a wonderful sense of discernment. And basically you trust your instincts. You trust yourself enough to say, this is what I need, this is what I don't need. Hey, it works for me. It might not work for you. So I wanna thank you for joining me on filter capacity. I, I'll tell you, your take was fresh, funny, and thoughtful. And I guess a good reminder that sometimes just follow your instincts and you'll be fine.

Olivia:

Thank you. I really appreciate that. Thank you so much for having me on. This has been such a cool experience.

Pat:

Oh, it's been fun for me too. And I wish you all the best in Ireland. How exciting.

Olivia:

Thank you so much. Yeah, it'll be so much fun.

Pat:

Well, listeners, I hope you enjoyed today's podcast and thank you for tuning in to Fill To Capacity. Take care. Bye.

 

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