Fill To Capacity (Where Heart, Grit and Irreverent Humor Collide)

Grounded & Gutsy: Rachel Finch on Life with Horses

• Pat Benincasa • Episode 118

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In rural Queensland, Australia, a young trainer builds trust one horse at a time. At just twenty-something, Rachel Finch runs YP Performance Horses, guiding everything from high-strung racehorses learning to relax to unhandled colts taking their first steps toward trust. She swaps speed for softness, pressure for partnership—and the results speak for themselves. This grounded, gutsy conversation digs into what it really takes to turn training into true connection.

Today's episode is brought to you by the Joan of Arc Scroll Medal, a beautiful brass alloy medal, designed by award-winning artist, Pat Benincasa. This uniquely shaped medal is ideal for holiday or as a special occasion gift!    Visit www.patbenincasa-art.com


Please Note: The views expressed by our guests do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcaster.

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Pat:

Fill To Capacity where heart grit and irreverent humor collide. A podcast for people too stubborn to quit and too creative not to make a difference.

Pat:

Hi, I am Pat Benincasa and welcome back to Fill To Capacity. Episode #118, "rounded and Gutsy: Rachel Finch on Life with Horses." Rachel started in the world of English riding dressage where horse and rider move with ballet-like precision. But her true rhythm came in western training working with what's called the Cow Horse. Athletic Horses bred to handle cattle with speed and smarts. Now in her very early twenties, Rachel runs YP Performance Horses, her ranch in rural Queensland, Australia, where she's built a training program centered on patience, trust, and partnership. She's not just turning out performance horses, she's shaping relationships, built on feel, respect, and understanding. Today, on Fill To Capacity, we explore Rachel's grounded, gutsy way of training where patience and partnership take the lead. Well, welcome Rachel. So nice to have you here.

Rachel:

Thanks for having me.

Pat:

So I'm trying to wrap my mind that I'm talking to someone on the other side of the world here.

Rachel:

Oh, I'm the same. It's hard to think that you're a day behind us too.

Pat:

I know. Okay, so let's start with the basics. 25 horses, 14 in training. That's a lot of lives to manage. What does an average day look like for you and how do you keep your work meaningful? How do you energize yourself?

Rachel:

So, luckily I've got a beautiful team of people working with me. So just recently my fiance, soon to be husband, he started working for me full time. So I've got him, he assists with the training. He does as much as he can catching. So that takes that part of my day away from me all the time. That gets wasted so I can spend more time in a saddle with what people are actually paying me to do. And I've got got a couple of grooms, which, you know, take that aspect of washing and grooming the horses. So it just gives me all the time that I need to focus on being on their backs, working on what they need to improve and just doing what the owners have asked me.

Pat:

Okay. Now you started in the English world, dressage precision and balance. Then you shifted into western cow horse work. What was the "aha" moment when you knew you found your place?

Rachel:

Well, I love the refinement of dressage, but in all honesty, it's gets very boring after a while. And that's not a dis to dressage riders or hacking riders, but it's more, I love the refinement, but I love speed as well. So I incorporated that into the western riding. And even when it comes to starting young cults for people, I'm still starting them with that dressage foundation so they can go on and continue to do whatever they wish to do. Because dressage at the end of the day is the base training of any horse. And dressage literally translates to the training of the horse.

Pat:

Now, on some of your Facebook posts, which I follow, you've written about the magic moment when a young horse "melts into the job." What goes through your mind when you feel that click happen?

Rachel:

Oh, it's just so pleasing to know that you as a rider are actually breaking through to young horse's mind. It's, it's not a simple conversation where they can speak back to you of Yes, okay. I understand what you're asking of me. It's they're understanding from the communication that you are giving them and finally it clicks with them and it makes you realize, okay, they're understanding it now. Understanding now we've got something to build upon.

Pat:

Now one of the perks about doing a podcast is when a guest brings us into their world and we have to learn their jargon. Okay, I'm gonna fess up. I'm urban, but I'm gonna pretend like I know what I'm talking about here. Okay?

Rachel:

It's alright.

Pat:

So let me lay this on you. A hackamore is headgear used to ride a horse without a bit. Instead it uses a Bosal, a raw hide nose band that guides the horse through light pressure on the nose and jaw. Rachel, why do you start young horses this way and what do the riders have to learn from this method?

Rachel:

So generally we start all of our young horses in a hackamore or eloping hackamore or a bosal, mainly for the simple fact of we want them working in the body correctly, working in their face, listening to us in the aids that we're giving, rather than getting on a young horse and pulling on their mouth with a bit and starting off bad foundations from get go. So for the first two or three weeks we'll ride them in a bosal, get that soft, willing demeanor under saddle despite of having mounted them with long reigning and all that type of stuff. Then we set them up into the bit 'cause that foundation of direction and pressure and collection then steps up as soon as they've got a bit in their mouth.

Pat:

So it is a form of really taking your time and guiding them, leading them to having the bit in their mouth.

Rachel:

Yeah, that's correct.

Pat:

So by the time you do that, there has to be an element of trust I would think.

Rachel:

Yeah. So when we feel they're comfortable, they're traveling around, rounded between our legs, between the reins, we then step them up into the bit because obviously owners want their horses going in a bit and then later down a track they'll step up into a bridal and all that type of stuff. When we feel they're ready and rounded, that's when we step them up into the bit because okay, we know we're not gonna have to jerk on their faces to stop them, turn them. Just get your basic direction.

Pat:

Now it seems like training horses is one part skill and one part heart. Where do you think in the process trust shows up the most in your work?

Rachel:

I would definitely say from day working with the young horses that come through. Like if they don't trust me then we're not gonna get anywhere. It's showing them leadership but not dominating them in such a way that they're scared and dismissed into doing this work for you. Yeah. You want them to learn that being guided by you on ground, under saddle is not a terrifying experience. It's something that they can become comfort and comfortable with. And like from, as I said, from day working with these young horses, it's, that's when the trust starts building. If, you know, when it comes to catching, like if you've got a horse that you can't catch, obviously it doesn't trust you coming up, grabbing it, pulling it outta the paddock. So it's like, we just recently had an Arab come through here that was basically unhandled and before I started any of that work with him breaking in wise, I spent two, two and a half weeks just on ground teaching him that it's okay, like I'm not gonna hurt you, you can accept what I'm doing. It's, it's okay. Yeah. And without that, it's where I found a lot of horses start to crumble is when you get these people that just want to get on, get them going and you know, so I want you on the horse within the first week, but without those building blocks it's, it's not gonna happen. And the way I see it is it's without that trust and connection in the beginning, it's like trying to build a house without, you know, the actual framing and concrete done properly. It's just gonna collapse later on. So it's, yeah.

Pat:

You know, there's something about horses that pulls at people the beauty, the power, the quiet knowing. What do you think it is that makes them so magnetic, so capable of moving us? What is it about horses?

Rachel:

I would honestly say that just such, without sounding cheesy, they're a majestic creature. Like they're a beautiful animal. Yeah. And it's, their studies proven that people with high levels of anxiety, depression, once they're in a radius of around a horse, their heart rate actually decreases and they settle. So horses have that healing power about them as well. So in Australia, you know, riding for the disableds, becomes such a big thing because a lot of kids and even adults, you know, whether they've got mental health issues or they're really unwell, you know, PTSD war veterans or even, drug addicts and everything, like they found a lot of healing with horses 'cause it's such an honest animal that's not gonna judge you and can just be there and you can love it.

Pat:

I love how you say that. It's an "honest animal." I've never heard someone refer to an animal that way. And I know if we had dog lovers or cat lovers here, they'd say, yeah, yeah, I know what you're talking about. Exactly.

Rachel:

Yeah, exactly.

Pat:

It's that rapport that you establish and with people who, who go through a lot and you've just given a whole outline of different situations, you know, people that have been damaged in life and somehow it's almost like horses pick up on that, that they're Oh yeah, they're sensitive to it. Right.

Rachel:

Yeah, a hundred percent.

Pat:

When I read your posts, I love how horses are treated as partners, you know, as you've been explaining. But was there a horse that really taught you a lesson?

Rachel:

I think there's plenty of them.

Rachel:

I remember as a kid, I had this one horse, I've still got him to this day actually. And I'd learned how to ride on really quiet horses. And I was handed this 4-year-old horse when I was six years old. And I didn't come from a very horsey family that was mum and dad's first mistake, God bless their soul. But <laugh> and this horse got let get away with all these different things, you know, like came a proper turt is all, I'm gonna say, he was the first horse to teach me a lesson of manners. And what he was like is what I've built my training upon is you couldn't catch him. You would get on the go for a ride, he would flick his tail, stomp his hook, not wanna go try and jack up. But it just taught me that firmness of, no, I'm gonna do this with you today. We'll work through whatever is going on on your behalf, but it's okay. Get over it. Essentially. Like it's, and now whenever I get on a horse that wants to flick its tail or stomp or do anything like that, it just takes me back to this poor little 10-year-old sitting on this horse going, mom, he's not going.

Pat:

It almost sounds parental in the sense that with firmness and guidance and respect

Rachel:

Yeah, exactly.

Pat:

And the back and forth.

Rachel:

Exactly. So it's, it's exactly like that. It's, and that's what I say to a lot of owners that come through with the horses is, you know, you've got a 2-year-old or three-year-old horse that you're presenting me that's got all these issues, you know, you know, goes to bite, kick, rear or buck. They're toddlers at the end of the day and you've gotta treat them like toddlers. So if you start letting 'em get away with all these little itty bitty habits, it's just gonna turn into this big explosion later on. So it's the same thing as looking after a little child. Like you know, if they scream and kick 'cause they, you know, don't want to go to school, well you work through that and show them the firmness of no you're going to school. So what parents have to deal with in a terrible twos and everything is what I sometimes have to deal with when it comes to these young horses as well.

Pat:

Yeah. Now you're talking about young horses. Have people come to you with horses that are mature and say, Hey, I've got a problem.

Rachel:

Yes. And then that's the total other end of the spectrum where because their brains are so much more developed when they come to me, you know, eight years old, that their brains are developed, they have already inbuilt these habits. So you've gotta go back to square one and actually redo and reeducate them from the single building block because it's harder to educate 'em with more mature horse where your younger horse is a sponge.

Pat:

So what is a lifespan of a horse?

Rachel:

Oh, it just really depends. Like I've seen some horses get to 35, so it's, yeah.

Pat:

Okay. Now as a young trainer, you are building not only horses but also a reputation. What's the biggest challenge and the biggest surprise that you found in carving your own path?

Rachel:

I think community opinion would be the biggest thing. Being so young, I'm not gonna sit here and pretend I'm the world's best trainer. I'm the furthest thing from it. But a young and up and coming trainers come in advertising they can, you know, break and train horses, give them miles reeducate behavioral issues where you've got people who've been in the industry for 40 years that have got years of experience on me. And someone sat me down one day asking why would someone spend X amount of dollars each week to send a horse to you when they could spend a hundred, $200 more to send it to a trainer that's, you know, accomplished one national titles has a world of experience on top of you. And my reply was, because I can offer something different. Yes, all these trainers are brilliant, but they treat the horses like a machine where I'm taking the time to treat every horse individually and give them the time and care that they deserve and work a method that works for them.

Rachel:

I don't have one set training method for any horse that comes through here. I get on, I assess with breakers. You know, some horses take to stuff differently than other horses. So it's, I develop my own method to suit every horse and imagine getting on them and once you finish riding 'em, it's like having a little cassette tape in the back of your head. Once you finish riding them, you take that cassette tape out and put the next one into the next horse. So it's carrying different methods for every horse and not carrying on a bad ride or a bad experience from a ride two rides beforehand. It's just adapting. And that's the biggest thing I say to clients is that's what I can offer is it's just not one concrete method that I force upon every single horse.

Pat:

So if someone says, oh we need to take our horse to Rachel Finch, what do they know that you're going to do?

Rachel:

Well they know that I'm gonna work with their horse and you know, obviously that, but then actually work through whatever's going on with that horse, but also work with the owner as well. So we heavily encourage owners to be a part of their horse's training programs, watch what happens, you know, see what they've gotta expect when this horse goes home. And you know, in the final weeks they're training, we heavily encourage them to come and ride their horse under instruction. So we generally charge for lessons, but with such an instance of them having a client horse with us, you know, we give them those lessons for free. 'cause we want them to have the best outcome for their riding future and journey once they leave that from the property.

Pat:

It almost sounds like couples therapy.

Rachel:

Oh, essentially.

Pat:

When you think about it. Like you're really reeducating the horse and the owner in a new way of being with the horse.

Rachel:

Yeah, that's correct. I never thought of it like that actually.

Pat:

Maybe you can say yes we are horse therapists. I'm curious. Animals have personalities. We have three kitties and they're very different from each other. Olive is the littlest girl in the house and she'll give a skank eye to the two boy cats and they run, and Bruno is just always sleeping. And then Marco Polo is like a linebacker. He's just a tuxedo kitty that's just a love bug. But they have very different personalities. And so have you worked with a horse that has resisted everything you try as if you're in a test of wills?

Rachel:

Yes. So we took on a practically unhandled, it'd only seen man when it was run into a (inaudible), sedated and castrated. And we had this gelding like loose on a float when it got here, ran it into yards and it was nasty. Like he would rear at over the top of you, strike at you once you put a halter on him, he would rear up and flip on his back.

Rachel:

You know, he had a lot of issues going on. Like we feel he was inbred, like he had what you call a cleft palate. So the top of their mouth palette is nonexistent. So, and he had clubbed feet, so deformed feet as well. So he had a lot going on. So no wonder the poor bugger was so grumpy the first three, four weeks with him. It was a challenge. You know, I was saying I'm a partner, you know, like I, I'm really not getting anywhere with this horse. What do I do? You know, do you think I'll just call the owner and say No, it's, it's not working. But then one day I decided to change my tactics working with him and just once I'd finished all the rest of the other horses, I changed my approach and he started to realize, okay, I'm not trying to hurt you. You're not trying to kill me. I don't need to try and kill you back. And six weeks later, by the time we finished starting him under saddle, he was quiet enough to be a kid's horse. I've had a lot of horses come here, especially even 6-year-old stallions that haven't been touched. And like they're gonna stand their ground. They don't like you, they don't want to do what you ask. So it's just working with them to adjust and make them realize that the world doesn't suck essentially.

Pat:

Yeah, that is important. I taught art for many years and the biggest thing is earning the trust of students. If I'm asking them to express themselves, well they have to feel respected and that trust has to be there. And what you're talking about is the same thing, that kind of rapport.

Rachel:

Yeah, that's exactly correct. And you know, it is the same thing here because they're basically my students as well. So it's sure. And if I don't give them respect, who am I to expect for them to respect me? It's an equal playing field. It goes both ways.

Pat:

Yeah, it certainly does. So you have a range of horses. Do you like sell some of the horses? Do you purchase horses? Do you do that too?

Rachel:

Yeah, and the last probably about 10 to 12 months, we've had a fair few horses come through to be sold on consignment. And that's a challenge in itself is 'cause you are advertising somebody else's horse and you can get 20,000 messages, but only 10 are actually genuinely interested and like the term tire kickers. So it's, I'm in a position where I could get a message at one o'clock in the morning and me and my personality, I'll look at and go, I have to reply to this right now. So there's that part. And yeah, we buy a fair few horses, something that my partner probably hates about me and we have the, like mostly these horses we buy them to train and then sell on. But then I think everyone in my family would agree with this onr... Oh I'll, there'll never be another one like it. So I end up keeping it.

Pat:

I wanna ask you about that. You cultivate this wonderful relationship and then someone says, well I wanna buy it. First of all, I'd wanna know everything about that person.

Rachel:

Oh, exactly.

Pat:

And the second thing is letting go of them, letting go after you've worked with them. That must be really tough.

Rachel:

I think like with personal horses when it comes to selling them, it's not, it's harder for that compared to a client horse because you learn to build a relationship with these client horses. But then you also take that emotional step back of realizing it's not your horse. At the end of the day, you're doing what the owner wants where, you know, one of my horses, if I list it up to sell, I've got a stock horse gelding and I go to list up probably about once a week. 'cause you know, we've got a wedding to pay for and then I'm thinking, oh I can't get rid of him. You know, it's, it's emotional for my own horses. But then you take that step back emotionally when it comes to outside horses that you need to sell for the public, going through all the criteria of finding them the right home is the same extent though. Like it's, you really wanna make sure it goes to the right home. And the last thing I want is to sell a horse on then, you know, find, you know it's been sold on or it's been neglected or you know, it wasn't the right fit. So I go to the lengths and measures to make sure that doesn't happen.

Pat:

And I imagine the flip side of that is once you find that they're going to someone who is loving and will care for the horse, that must give you a, a certain amount of satisfaction.

Rachel:

Oh it does. And it, it makes me feel relieved. Especially if it's a personal horse I'm selling, you know, I am very fussy with where my horses go and it's a relief knowing when they're going to a really good home. 'cause you know they're gonna be looked after, you know they're gonna be loved. And you know, I remember a few years ago when we had a really bad drought. Well, my parents sold one of the horses that I learned how to ride on because we just, we couldn't afford feed anymore and everything was just dirt. And even to this day I'm still in contact with the lady who purchased that horse. You know, you have some people that purchase these horses, you never hear from 'em again. And then you've got the other ends of the spectrum where these people still stay in contact despite selling a horse like nine years ago. So it's

Pat:

Now you live and work in rural Queensland wide open spaces, lots of quiet, just you and the horses. Yep. Okay. How does that kind of setting shape the way you train and connect with the horses compared to maybe the busier stables closer to the cities? Well, does location make a difference?

Rachel:

I think having such a laid back facility here is what really sculpts the horses' personalities as well. So we have a lot of high strung horses come here that, you know, you'll walk out a week later and they're on their side sleeping in the paddock, which is a massive thing for them. We've had a gist, ease come in with off the track race horses that you know, have never been able to let down and relax and two weeks after being here in such a quiet laid back area that they're sleeping in the paddock as well. So I think with such busiest, busiest stables, it's more the thing of there's so much going on that the horse has got so much to physically take in and like absorb that it's gonna take them 10 times longer to actually relax in the setting that they're in. Where here it's peaceful, it's quiet. They've got their own custom paddock, super safe shade, everything like that. And they're in their own little spaces where they can just decompress themselves before they even start getting work.

Pat:

What is a paddock?

Rachel:

So a paddock is an Australian term for where the horses are kept? So all of our horses in our training program, they paddock privately in their own areas, in plain wire areas of a hundred meters by 35 meters. So it's a decent size for them. And that's the one niche that we wanted to carry on with our training program is a lot of trainers really like having horses kept in small yards. So because time is money for them, they want the efficiency, okay, the horse is right there, I'll grab it at this little yard work it, it goes back where we wanted to have the different approach essentially of once we've finished working with them, they can still be a horse, they can go out, be in their pasture or paddock, whatever you may call it, and still do what they want away from just being confined 24/ 7.

Pat:

So the idea of allowing a horse to relax.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Pat:

Just to relax. Especially you said you have racing horses. I can't imagine they do much, uh, relaxing anywhere in that lifestyle.

Pat:

So they come to you and they're learning this whole new way of being. So what happens when they go back to their life,

Rachel:

I guess they just go backwards, wound back up again and you know, that's why you find a lot of high strung horses end up with stomach ulcers as well. So it's, it's essentially imagine being, especially these race horses, it's essentially being someone with really high level anxiety standing in the middle of a shopping center where you know everything's going on. There's so much stimulating you and overstimulating you. Where if you take a step out of that shopping center and go stand in a paddock or you know, go stand in a park and look at the trees or birds, you are gonna be a whole lot more relaxed in that environment than such a confined, busy environment.

Pat:

You mentioned earlier that when you were a little kid you started to become aware of horses.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Pat:

Was that inside of you? Like when I was growing up as a little kid before I think I could even do the alphabet I was drawing. I knew I was an artist. That's why I'm on this earth. I knew it.

Pat:

With you with horses, did you know that you were meant to be with them and work with them?

Rachel:

Well I remember as a little kid actually, I remember watching all these really old school western movies with my dad and especially all those John Wayne movies. From that I just, I always wanted a horse and I begged and I begged, but mom and dad weren't in the financial position. So I got a horse head on a stick and I used to lead it around everywhere and I absolutely loved it. And then one of the produce places where we would get all the stock feed from back then, they had this beautiful pinto gelding for sale and the man who owned that feed place actually let me ride this horse and he would leave me around on it and I said, mom, dad, I want this horse. I really want this horse. They ended up buying me that horse, which was the one I was telling you about.

Rachel:

And I finally got my first ever horse. And it was from there that, you know, I remember as a little girl, I was laying next to my mom in bed one morning looking out the window at the cattle down the back saying one day I just, I wish all those cows down. There were horses, I want paddocks filled with horses. And sometimes I'll say, be careful what you wish for. 'cause now it's a lot of work . I think it all just stemmed from being such a little kid watching all those type of things on TV and I thought, wow, those cowboys are so cool. I wanna look like that. And then I, my dream finally came true and mom and dad bought me a horse.

Pat:

So when they look at you now in this operation that you have, what do they say? What do they think?

Rachel:

They're very proud of me. They just can't believe how far I've come in such a short time. Like I was riding in a plowed up dirt section for 14 years. That's all I had to ride horses in. And it was only last year that we had a proper arena installed and it had to be done twice because the first time the base wasn't done correctly. So that was a financial kick in a bum essentially. Yeah, they're very proud of me. I always joke to my mum 'cause she said to me, "you know, horses are a hobby, not a career, Rachel." Because they came from the background where they didn't understand how much money was in the horse industry. And now I pick on my mom sometimes going see mom so much for horses are a hobby, not a career. So <laugh>, I'm just gonna have that little dig.

Pat:

Of course there's another piece to this in running this operation, you must be a pretty savvy businesswoman too.

Rachel:

Oh, oh, come on. Yes and no. Yes and no. Like I'm not gonna sit here and take all the credit. My fiance's father, he is a very successful businessman and he's helped me a lot, given us advice. If it wasn't for him, apart from my talent with the horses, I wouldn't also be where I am right now. Like he's helped us out a lot and we don't take it for granted. So anytime we have an issue of what do you reckon we do with this, you know, finances and stuff, he suddenly clicks over to that business mindset of, okay, do this, this and this. This is what you want to do. And I really think having that support and knowledge behind me as well is probably why it's such a well structured business now,

Pat:

I have to say, it's really a wonderful thing that in this whole conversation, you know how to ask people for things that you need. It sounds like you're a team player that almost like with the horses that it's generated by respect.

Rachel:

Yeah, that's exactly it.

Pat:

That's it really in life. You can't ask for anything better than that.

Rachel:

Oh a hundred percent. And at the end of the day, you know, like I give these horses respect, but what I would also like is what I expect from a client is respect from them as well. So it's, yes, sometimes it's like you're on a seesaw of, you know, if they hear something they don't like about their horse, then they get their backs up and they don't like it. So it's just this pendulum going back and forth of you just gotta juggle that relationship with a client as well. Respect goes both ways and this industry and with everything.

Pat:

Yes it does. As we get towards the end of the conversation, if someone walked away from your story remembering one truth about what it means to live and work alongside horses, what would you want them to know?

Rachel:

Oh, that's a, that's a tough question actually. There's a lot of things. I think probably what I would want them to know is you're gonna have your ups and downs, especially in a journey like this. And it gets expensive, it gets tough. You have to make decisions that break your heart, whether it comes from putting horses to sleep with medical issues or stuff like that. But everything happens for a reason essentially. And where you think you are right now, instead of being so absorbed of where you aren't, think about where you could be in 10 years time. Like it's, it's the biggest thing I find is, you know, people struggle with where they currently are, whether it be with horses or something else, where instead of getting so caught up mentally on the present, just think about the future and what you could become yourself. Back when I was a little kid, I never thought I'd be training horses professionally. I remember sitting in class and I hated school. I didn't even finish school. I left school in grade 10 and I started working with horses after that. It's a journey. So things take time, essentially everything happens for a reason at the right time.

Pat:

It sounds like you're fluid, you can roll with the punches, not that you don't have reactions to them, possibly a curse word here or there, whatever. But at, at the end of the day, it sounds like you are the kind of person that will always move forward no matter what.

Rachel:

I would agree with that. And I think a lot of people around me would agree with that as well. Like it's, I'm in the mindset now. Stuff happens, get over it, keep pushing forward. Life's not perfect. And it's the same thing when a horses have a bad ride. Like, okay, get over. It's not the end of the world. Just keep pushing through. It's just making impressionable moments for yourself that makes you feel like you're actually getting somewhere.

Pat:

Where did you get that wisdom from?

Rachel:

I don't know.

Pat:

That is really wise.

Rachel:

But now it's just, I had a lot of lot growing up to do, leaving school so early and you know, choosing to do this that I grew up really quick and had to have a perspective pretty bloody quick as well.

Pat:

Absolutely. Well Rachel, it's been a joy hearing how you live and work alongside your horses.Thank you for sharing your, your time and your insight and your wisdom on Fill To Capacity.

Rachel:

It was a pleasure chatting to you.

Pat:

Oh, I really enjoyed it. And listeners, thank you for joining us and see you next time. Take care. Bye.

 

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