Beyond Labels. Beyond Limits. Look Again.

What happens when we stop asking, “What’s wrong?” and start asking, “What’s possible?

👀 Vinya Sankaran Vasu has spent her life looking past labels, assumptions, and the limits we place on one another. From classrooms in Oakland to school systems in India 🌏, she has seen what can happen when a child is truly seen, a parent is truly heard, and an educator refuses to give up on possibility.

🔥 But this conversation goes beyond education. We talk about courage, burnout, belonging, self-trust, breaking ceilings, and the hard-earned wisdom of learning to listen to your own life.

🚧 Some people see obstacles. Vinya sees the person standing behind them. ❤️

Fingerprints Learning Collective

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Pat

Fill to Capacity, where heart, grit, and irreverent humor collide. A podcast for people too stubborn to quit and too creative not to make a difference.

Pat

Hi, I'm Pat Benincasa, and welcome to Fill To Capacity. I'm so glad you're here. Episode 142. “Beyond Labels. Beyond Limits. Look Again. “My guest today is someone I've had the joy of knowing for several years. Vinya Shankaran Vasu. 

Okay, listeners, one of the things I admire about Vinya is how intentionally she lives. Her life is guided by this core question. How do we help people discover strengths that others overlook? 

That question has taken her from educational leadership in California to shaping education systems across India. Today, she is the founder of Fingerprints Learning Collective, where she's making educational support more accessible to families, educators, and schools. 

Okay, okay, listeners, that's only part of who Vinya is. She's someone who treats life as a gift. She's a community builder who's just as happy hosting a full table as she is learning to crochet in a quiet moment. Behind everything she does is one simple truth. Every person has untapped potential and every story matters. Welcome, Vinya. I'm so excited to have you here.

Vinya

Oh, Pat, this is such a treat. Thank you so much for those loving words. Thank you so much. Very happy to be here. 

Pat

Okay, we've got lots to talk about, but I want to start with a bit of backstory. Now, growing up in Southern India, what early experiences first sparked your drive to serve others? 

Vinya

That's a great question. I grew up in a small mountain town. It's called Oti. I come from a middle-class family. We're from Kerala, but I grew up in Tamil Nadu. And my dad comes from, I would say, from humble means. And he really worked his way up in the army. My mom used to work for the government. She had an office position in a government office. And I also grew up in a village. Her office was in a village because it was an agriculture research institute. 

It was a very interesting place. It was a really nice, sleepy village with this huge potato farm where I grew up. The best schools were about 10 kilometers away. I would go into the city to study. But I also had the pleasure of growing in a village. And even to get to a house, we had to cross the village. 

I grew up studying in this convent where we had really rich children. And then being in a village where I also got to see farm laborers. It was such a beautiful experience of being able to see different worlds from a young age. And my parents, they left the small village and the small town that they grew up in.

And my dad would kind of have transfer jobs in the army. And my mom stayed in Ooty working and raising us.

Again, they had stepped out of their family to be able to raise us.

It was such a beautiful experience of all these different things, village and town, army life and city life.

And then, you know, their own childhood experiences, their families and how much they had to do to raise us. I think all of that definitely contributed to how I think about life.

And the school I studied, it was a Christian convent. Most of my schooling, my middle school was in a Christian convent.

And we used to have something called social league, where every week we would go on social league activities.

Vinya

We would go on camps once a year and we would actually go into villages and we would do different kind of outreach activities. So many different experiences. It was so rich.

Pat

I guess all of that you know it's a beautiful alchemy that brings you to being aware of a variety of lifestyles how people live and it seems to be the forge that just put you together and your worldview now that leads me to my next question, I've got to ask this because it's huge. Now, you being a girl in India, decide to leave your country to study in the United States. No one in your family had done such a thing. Where did you find the courage to step outside of cultural expectations like that? How did you do that?

Vinya

I'm just thinking about it now. My dad always would say things like let her go so we would have to go and buy groceries back then we couldn't buy it in the village so if we wanted something special we had to go to the nearest town which like I told you is like 10 kilometers to 10 kilometers away and my dad would tell my mom you know it's okay if she takes the bus it's okay if she comes back late I don't want her to be scared and to kind of protect herself let her do what she wants she's going to be fine and my mom was the opposite she would actually be standing and waiting until I come back if I go out. 

And I think it was mainly my dad he always encouraged me to try different things to explore we would go on vacations to my dad's wherever his army transfer station was at that point and I remember he even taught me how to use the gun I've gone on firing competitions and so it was such a beautiful and he would say do whatever you want, there is no limits And even something, so cooking, food is a big deal in my family and I guess in many Indian families, home-cooked healthy meals. My dad would say I don't want you to spend time in the kitchen, so just chop it up, make it functional. You don't waste time in the kitchen. Do what you have to do so you can come out and do other things that you like. 

And the other big thing, when I spoke about special education with them, it was not a known subject. At least when I was growing up, I'm 44 now. So, you know, when I was in college, most parents wanted children to go into engineering or medicine. It was very common here. And when I said, you know, I've heard of this subject called special education and I want to study it. They didn't question it even once. Not once. They were just like if that's what you want to do, that's what you will do.

And my dad actually gave a part of his retirement income so I could fund my grad school and come to the U.S. I look back at those days with a lot of gratitude because they could have easily stopped me from coming there. And it's not easy to make that big step. I used to tutor these two children in the city. I was working in Bangalore for some time. And that family also was very wealthy and they're into a big business. And they said, we're going to show the funds you need in the bank so you can go. I think there were many angels that supported my dream and made sure that.

And I think also the first job I took up was in Bangalore. I came here to teach after four years of studying. So I did a Bachelor of Science, a Bachelor of Education, came here to work. I was so excited about having my class and working with the children. And I go into my classroom, I see these 10 children looking up at me. And guess what? I didn't know how to teach them. 

So while four years had taught me a lot of theory, I did not know the practical aspects of teaching children with very different needs in a class with varying age groups. I had no idea. So then I decided if I want to do this, I want to do it right. So then I came to study and, you know, then it was, I guess, a mix of support from family and a commitment to want to do the right thing and to do it well.

Pat

Yeah. And I think you echo what many teachers go through. It's one thing to get your degrees in education. But the day you open the classroom door and you walk in, it's like, oh, my gosh, here I am. And it's real. And the students are real. And they come with all their life experiences. And there you are, a new teacher. Now, you started this. I want to go back to it. You landed in the U.S. after making that leap. And you went straight to work with kids. But you were facing kids. These kids were facing learning differences. trauma, or significant emotional challenges. And that didn't scare you. In fact, it's the work that keeps drawing you back. What is that? What brings you back to working with kids like that?

Vinya

In all honesty, when I got the job, I didn't know the severity of it. I was sitting in Kansas. I had just finished up grad school. By the way, many people don't know this. The University of Kansas is ranked, I think now second in the nation for, it's like the Ivy League of special ed. So, and you know, and back then I was like, if I'm going, I'll go to Kansas. If not, I'm not going. So that's where I applied and went. So I moved to California when I got my job. I always had this idea of living next to the ocean because I grew up in the mountains. So it was a fancy that I lived close to the ocean, applied in the Bay Area and I got a job there. Everything happened virtually. I hadn't seen the school. I hadn't been there. It was just like, you know, you got a job and you can join us and this is your start date.

And the first day I walked in, Pat, I still remember I'm walking into the school. A child is being helped by two staffs and they're by the entrance of the school. And he looks up at me and he says, welcome you Puerto Rican bitch. And I was stunned. For one, you know, like having studied in convents and very conventional kind of settings, I hadn't even heard the B word or the F word said out loud. I was like, wait, did I hear that right? Is that what he said? And then I knew he confirmed it. He said it again and he confirmed it. I had no idea that is what I was walking into. 

And then they said, we're happy you're here. We want you to set up your classroom. The children are going to come. So that was a combination kindergarten, first and second grade. So they said the children will be joining a week late. So we wanted to set up the class. And they literally took me to this kind of a, you know, building that was, I think, I don't think it had been opened and cleaned up in like a month. And it had like all kinds of things in it, broken furniture, like broken things and old books and you name it.

So yeah, I didn't know that's what I was walking into. But then once I started reading up about my children and their histories, there's no way I would have done anything else. It felt like that was the place to be. And I was just, I was just completely, I don't know what made me do it. Maybe it was very important to me that children get the best childhood that they possibly could. And just, there was so much of love and care and community in my life, right? So I couldn't imagine otherwise. And pregnancies are considered very sacred. So just to read histories of children being neglected, it really got to me. I just wanted to do what I could and do the best I could for my children.

Pat

Yeah. Now, I taught high school and college art for over 30 years. So I've seen my share of frustrated students. You've often said that behavior is communication. And as an artist, I know nonverbal expression often speaks louder than words. When a student is acting out or shutting down, what nonverbal cues or creative outlets do you look for to figure out what they're really trying to tell you?

Vinya

It took a while and I know it's still a work in progress. o first of all, it was hard for children to come back after, say, a weekend or a long break. And it was two very different worlds that the children were kind of navigating. Because some of them came from, there was just way too much pain in their life.

Maybe parents in the prison or in some cases not even having a parent coming from the foster care system having gone through many homes abuse at home. I've had children who would hear gunshots in the night- like it like actually, they would come in and say you know what I didn't sleep much because it was too loud. They had seen so much so the first thing I think was to make sure that they felt safe and connected and for some I have had children who would not even I mean, this child would come into the class, leave his things and leave. And I'll only see him in the evening or during his lunchtime. Right. Like he would literally just come in for his meals, eat and then he'll be gone.

And I remember having a conversation with this child. I just said, you know, I put a lot of effort into making sure your learning experiences can be fun for you. Is there something I can do differently so I can see you more in class? We really miss you here. What can we do? And then he was like, yeah, I don't know. I don't, I can't think of anything. So then I was like asking him, okay, tell me, what do you want to be when you grow up? And then he just looks at me with this big, beautiful black eyes. And he says, a grownup. I mean, I was thinking if he says that he wants to be an artist or a doctor, whatever, I can then tell him it will help you to study. But he was just like, I just want to be a grownup.

The children were just absolutely honest and unfiltered. I wouldn't say they were kind and loving. No, not in the initial days. They were just raw. They were unfiltered and they wore their emotions on their face.

It took a while to figure out what would work, what wouldn't. We had a greeting system in the morning. When they come in, I could just look at them, and I'll know what kind of space they're in. I'll be like, do you want a hug, a high five, a Hollywood kiss or a handshake? And then if it's nothing and if it just walk away, I'm like, OK, they need a lot of space in the morning.

So just did many different things. And eventually, I think after about a month or two, the children really settled in. And then we did before. Can you believe we actually did like an Indian performance? My children actually did an Indian performance of a Diwali dance on stage. And they learned Indian recipes. And so, I guess we just have to give time, lots of time and patience to ourselves, to them.

I'm not sure if that answers your question. I think it kind of fails. It does. 

Pat

But what is a Hollywood kiss? 

Vinya

So it would just go, you know, like the actresses do it. Oh, yeah. It's like a bobbing bird head. Like you go on one side of the face and the other and you make the kissing sound, but you do not actually kiss them.

Pat

Thank you. Thank you for clarifying that.

You've worked with young people for over 20 years in both India and the U.S. You've seen how culture shapes childhood. But at the end of the day, Vinya, kids are kids. From your unique perspective, what does each culture get right when it comes to supporting them?

Vinya

You know, every place has its, I guess, the good and the bad, right? Different flavors. Every place has all shades, if I had to put it that way. 

So for me, if I had to look at culture here, sometimes I'll feel like a general statement because now things have really changed and it really depends on different families. But I did feel it would be nice for children to be able to experience doing their own thing, making their own decisions when it comes to the challenges of earning money or, you know, real world things because parents can be protective.

Again, I'm generalizing this is just strictly based on a few families that I might have seen. 

And there I felt like maybe freedom came a little too early. Can we discipline the children a little more? Can we hold on to them a little more? So I guess it's a dance of both. But otherwise, like you said, children are children. And I think they thrive in an environment where they know that adults see them for who they are, give them the space to be who they are, and are willing to hold their back and be with them. That's it, right? That's the universal truth. They just need to feel connected, respected, and heard, regardless of where they are. It's as simple as that.

Pat

And I agree with you from my years of teaching. I think you've just explained that's what young people respond to. But really, all of us, we want to be seen and heard. And so a child coming into a classroom knowing, knowing that that morning when they walk in, that teacher sees them, knows their life. And I think you've explained that beautifully.

Vinya

 If I had to reflect - reflection of our practices is the most important thing to do. Now, probably, if I had to look back, maybe the one thing I might have done differently. I was a teacher in my early 20s and I was so emotionally invested in my children, which is good.

But I think I was so completely into it that I don't think I protected myself. And what I mean by that is maybe if I had kind of just had a little bit of a space, maybe I would have been able to do more things. 

I wonder if learning about self-care and learning about burnout and self-care and how to take care of ourselves and all of that. I wonder if that would have made those days a little more easier because that was a big issue 10 years ago. it's a big issue now.

How do we prevent burnout? And how do we work with children from a place of fullness and self-care and radical responsibility, not just for them, but also for ourselves? I think those lessons came a little late, but it's okay. I guess it had to be the way it had to be.

Pat

Well, I have to say in all honesty, I came to teaching later in life in my 40s, And you hit on a really key point. If you're a new teacher at any age, you throw yourself into your work and into the students. And I, too, did the same thing going full tilt. And a seasoned teacher pulled me aside and he said, I'm going to give you a piece of advice. Like my first year in teaching, he said, "don't care more than they do." And I thought, that's so callous. That's so harsh. Don't care more than they do? But I grew into that and understanding a teacher cannot change the mindset of a student. We're not there to do that. And I thought, well, if I do this, this, or that, they'll do this and that. No, it doesn't work that way. I can't care more than they do.

Now, I can make a loving environment, a firm, respectful environment, and it's like a garden. I can set up all the ingredients of the garden, the right soil, the fertilizer, plant the seeds, but it's up to the seeds to either reach for the sun or do whatever they're going to do. And so that, for me, really helped me to pull back a little bit and give the student a space to grow.

Vinya

It's interesting, right? You worked with high school. 

Pat

No, I also had to work in the state of Minnesota to teach high school art, I had to get a K-12 license. So I had to spend time in kindergarten and early grades. And, whoa, that was an eye-opener. You know, I'd walk in, the little ones would come running and throw themselves around, hug my leg, because they were so excited to see me. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, that was a learning curve. I tell you what.

Vinya

I can imagine, oh gosh, that art and you doing art. That has been such a riot, such a happy riot. 

It's tricky, right? Because the children needed us to also. This was their safe space because many of the children did not come from safe homes. So it was a very, I guess I needed to do that. But at the same time, you know, eventually that was what made the children buy into the program. And ours was one of the best early childhood mental health programs in the county. And people used to come and visit us. It was also because we were so invested and because we did so much.

It's just that when I look back, sometimes I think I wish I did it with the same rigor and the same intensity. But I wish I also did self-care. And I didn't know about it, right? So what would happen is if I get a break, I would just go into the staff's kitchen. We had this coffee machine and we had those creamers. I would just dunk sugar and creamer and coffee. And that was like my feeling of self-soothing, I think. So, like just doing things like that.

I wonder how many teachers are not taking care of themselves and what we can do to prevent burnout.

Pat

That's a wonderful question. In fact, that would be a great topic for another podcast, actually. Okay, I want to shift gears. Entrepreneurs put so much thought into naming a venture. You could have named your organization almost anything, but you chose Fingerprints. What is the story behind that choice? And what does that image mean to you?

Vinya

So Fingerprints, because every fingerprint is unique. You know, there's this very beautiful poem. 

It's called “You Are Special,” one of my childhood friends gave it to me you know when I was in high school so it goes I don't remember the line but it basically goes you are the only you ,you have no one else in the universe has like your eyes your hair your voice your fingerprint you're the only creation in the universe that is like you- right that was the essence of that poem and this was she gave it to me in grade 11 and it really stayed with me. Especially when we work in special ed and in education it's so easy to lose the individuality of children because the lessons are kind of -you know it's all planned for for groups and this it's so easy to lose individual children in that and especially when it comes to labels right because I used to sit in so many IEP meetings talking about diagnosis and labels and so easy to lose the child, lose the person in all of that.

Pat

IEP stands for Individualized Education Program. It’s a legally binding plan created for a public school student with a disability who needs specialized instruction or support to learn, grow, and make progress in school.

Vinya

And our fingerprint is unique. They're the only ones who have it. Nobody else in all of time has had your fingerprint. That's just so fascinating. I love that idea. So I thought I should call the venture Fingerprints Learning Collective. It's a community that has to come together, help discover potential in every person. That's how the logo came. And it's just two thumbprints together, which makes it a heart.

Pat

So in so many programs, parents will drop their kid off at the door and hope for some kind of transformation. But you bring the parents right into the process. I have two questions for you.

Why is supporting them such a huge piece of helping the child?

And for parents navigating special education who feel completely exhausted by the system, what's one piece of advice you give them so they can advocate for their child without burning out? The first question is, why is supporting parents such a huge piece of helping the child? 

Vinya

Because one, they are the people who spend the most time with a child.

And it's so easy as professionals to forget that, to put on a professional hat, to become the experts and to not really look at the reality of a family or a home. And there's so much that they are navigating. There might be other siblings in the house. There might be a divorce. There might be no income. Right.

There are so many variables that go into being in a family. And it's so easy to think just because a child is not doing well, it's because a parent is not doing their job. It's a bias that I think many experts kind of fall into.

This is where I feel so grateful for the studies I had at the University of Kansas. I remember we had a paper called Family and Community Systems, which was all about really looking deeply at the family system and supporting parents and children.

So it's important because that's where they spend the most of their time. And that's where the most learning happens. What the child can learn in one breakfast cooking session with their mom, it might take me five math sessions to do in my classroom. And it's part of life. It's natural. The conversations you have are on a dining table. You know, to create that kind of learning and experience, it's difficult to create that in a classroom.

It's very important with parents that way. And your second question was?

Pat

The second question is for parents navigating special education who feel completely exhausted by the system. And you touched on it earlier that often in schools, people will just like pin the parents, like you're not doing enough. Okay, they're completely exhausted by the system. What's one piece of advice you give them so they can advocate for their children without burning out?

Vinya

First and most important thing I would say Pat- is take care of yourself this is a journey for life. And we have a full coffee concept right?  so I like I was telling you earlier with my teaching I came to that much later it's so important to realize this is a long journey and to go at it from a place of balance and equanimity might be a big word to use, but acceptance and gentleness. And if there's a word, self-compassion, I guess.

And it's hard. It's really hard because as a parent, when, you know, it's one of the toughest journeys you can take. And it's very hard because you're always thinking, should I do something better? Is it because of me? Like, is my child going to miss out on opportunities?

There are so many questions that a parent might be facing. So doing what we can from a place of self-love, but making sure that we also do it and we're not getting into denial. So it's a really fine balance of don't go to the other side where, you know, we're becoming passive. But also don't go at it with toughness. Go at it with a sense of balance.

Pat

You know, when you're talking earlier about parents, as an educator, I loved the parent-teacher conference. So at the end of a semester or a quarter, we'd have parent-teacher conferences. I couldn't wait because the second the parent or the parents would walk in, oh, my gosh, I understood the child. I mean, it was like lights went off. I got to see so much of their environment and comments.

It was just, oh, I would just leave those. My head spinning with so much information. So I really, really enjoyed meeting the parents, talking to them, getting to know them, because it answered so many questions for me. So helpful.

Vinya

What a powerful place to be in. Teachers and educators have the power to be able to shape a parent's perspective of a child. Yes. And that is sacred responsibility. That's why for me, I always say I'm not a special educator, not because I'm not a special educator. This is like the work of my life. I've been in this for 25 years.

But I say that I'm an educator first because people don't get it when I say I'm a special educator. They think it's about the small group of children who are needy. No. Special education is a part of general education. And every child deserves absolutely the best learning opportunities.

I've actually stopped, especially when you build your venture and when you're like putting posts and when you're there's so much you have to do marketing and all of that. I don't talk about special education because I don't want to lose out on working with people because they are not used to a system that is kind to them or that they're used to or because they get bogged down by this label. I always say it's education for all.

And I was just trying to, I think I was talking about like with parents, right? We have the power to tell the parents about the potential of a child. Yes. And when we don't, there are many parents who might not even know, and they might start seeing their children from a narrow lens. Then as a failure of the system and us.  

Pat

You know, in those conferences, I'm kind of a straight shooter. And so I remember I would tell a parent of a particular student, your child drives me crazy every day. Your kid just puts me at the end of my rope. And I love him for that. His mind is so brilliant. And when he fires questions, I have to get on my toes. I tell you what. So I tell the parent, this kid is doing all this stuff because his mind is so brilliant or her mind has this thirst to know and they don't go by platitudes and rules. They're rule breakers. And I tell parents, the bigger the rule breaker, the more I love the kid.

Vinya

And really, we're like these flashlights, right? Like we are the people who can show the way of, hey, these are all the possibilities for your child. Because sometimes parents don't have the time or the space to actually sit and maybe explore and think about that. They might be busy making a living and supporting the family. So what a responsibility to be able to do that.

And words really matter. Every word carries meaning and power. So to be able to hold that responsibility and show possibilities, and this takes time to come there, and this is a constant practice.

How do we look at possibilities for children? Look at what can we do rather than just looking at challenges and what they're not able to do? Because it's so easy to look at what's not happening and what a child can't do versus all the possibilities for a child.

Pat

Okay, now you're leading me into my next question. You've seen education from every angle as a leader, a mentor to teachers, and a system builder. If you had a magic wand and could change one thing about how schools support kids who learn differently, what would you change or fix first?

Vinya

Oh, my God, I love this question. I think for me, it's culture. Everything starts from culture. How do we build a culture in a school that is a community that enables and empowers and is kind to each other yeah I think that's like the first step because I work with so many parents where you know they tell me the school community knows that my child has this difficulty and you know today the driver looked at us kind of like oh, that's the kid who has the difficulty the caretaker looked at us like that or the other teacher did the friends did the friends parents it. So building a culture that is accepting and that celebrates kind of differences and individual potential. I think that if I could have a magic wand, I think, oh, that would be great. That would be the first one, right?

Pat

Yes, you'd be education queen for a day.

Behind all the philosophy and programs that we talk about, this work is really about one thing, changing a life one by one. And is there one child or family whose story for you sums up the heart of what Fingerprints is all about?

Vinya

Honestly, it's so hard to pick one child or a family- I can think of the children I taught back in Oakland, the child used to come to us I think he was with us for three years, my god he had the chubbiest cutest possible face like you would just want to hold him and oh my god , so I remember that he was so involved in the learning program he loved coming to school and it was such a joy he loved being part of the program and doing well and studying and he was so I remember once we had a meeting with a parent and she didn't show up and then the next time we had the meeting she didn't show up so we also had like a psychotherapist for each child so she decided to go on a family visit to see what was happening and she went home and then she came back and she told me Vinaya you do not believe it I literally had to make a pathway to go inside the house because the house was piled up with mail from years like it was just newspapers and catalogs and all kinds of things just piled up and she had to like find a way to go in. And it just made me think, there must be so much that the mother would have been dealing with right like mental illness or whatever trauma whatever that she is going through whatever in her journey and this child is coming from that place and this is his place of hope where he can make a change in his life.

So you know so when I look back at my children, I often wonder what happened to them and where they are and if they're okay.

But I hope that what I'm trying to do here now with Fingerprints with supporting schools because now it felt more meaningful to me to go from working with individual child to then classes then to school -to now I work with school systems and if I get an opportunity I work like on the policy work wherever I get an opportunity so these are the stories I hold and carry what can we do for those individual children for who education is the only hope that is their hope to a better life he comes to my classroom and my classroom being organized and, you know, a hot meal waiting for him is what gives him his anchoring and his inspiration to learn.

Pat

So five years from now, if Fingerprints Learning Collective has succeeded beyond your wildest hopes, what will be different for the families and communities you serve?

Vinya

One, just to know that there is support, that this is not a lonely journey where the parent has to figure everything out right? That just to know that there is a community that backs you that will be there for you and there are other people going through this journey and we can learn from each other that would be one thing.

 And the other is to create some kind of a documentation of successful stories of people who've actually gone through these challenges and talking about how life can actually, you know- our destiny is in our hands and we can really, really build what we want. And in fact, we can, we can create whatever we want. The possibilities are endless.

So being able to create that world of possibilities, giving us a supportive community and being able to take this to, I told you, I grew up in a small village and, I think back of, wouldn't it be great to have a nonprofit there and then to have a nonprofit where My dad grew up in a village near Uti and my mom is from.

There's so much in my own place and community where I can go back to and do things. So that's one. And I always say India gave me roots because this is where I'm from, but the U.S. gave me wings.

And I also think that I would love to come back to Oakland and create a space for parents and teachers. I don't want another teacher to feel born out the way I did. Wouldn't it be great to have a space where they can just come and a space where they can just went and be themselves and learn about self-care.

And so, yeah, so much to do. I'm trying to figure out how to make all of this work. And I'm sure in another five years, I hope I'll be able to tell you that. Guess what? We have Fingerprint centers here and here and there. And so many people are getting support. That would be my dream come true.

Pat

And Vinya, five years from now, I would not be surprised when you tell me that. 

Now, wherever you go, Vinya, you have a way of making people feel heard and seen. I mean, you just can't help yourself. You just naturally create a loving sense of community. Now, when you give so much of yourself to others, how do you recharge your own spirit?

Vinya

I'm thinking of this couple of phone calls when I've called you and said, oh,.... I just need some advice. And, it's a journey, right? And especially when you're navigating two different cultures and social identities, having been in very different places.

So as beautiful and magical as life has been, it's also been challenging because I'm navigating so many different worlds. I come from this kind of a background and this is what I want. There are so many different things that we're trying to balance and navigate. So I guess for me, I'm going to be 45 this month. 

And it's taken me so long to finally just listen to what I want more than what others around me want. Right. And you know this. We've had conversations on our Friday circles about this. 

Pat

A quick note here. Vinya is talking about our Friday, now Thursday, circle. An international group of 10 women who have been meeting every week for more than five years. We talk, laugh, vent, wrestle with life, celebrate good stuff, and mostly we just show up for each other.

Vinya

So, for me, it was earlier about what does it mean to be a beautiful daughter, right? Like in India, we say, Mata, Pita, Guru, Devam. Mata is mother, Pita is father. Guru is teacher. Devam is God.

So, it's like this thing where, you know, you respect mom and dad and your teacher and God. So I used to always think my purpose is to serve my family serve serve God serve society- right ?

Like all these ideas which is true even now but I think I realized, hey where do I fit into this? Earlier I would have told you my God, that is so selfish to think like that! How can I talk about myself? And  it's I've come a long way now and to be able to listen to ourselves and to really tune into our own needs and what we want from our life I think that is that's so important.

So that's kind of where I'm at I really. I think now I actually listen to- and you know about my cancer journey and that was one thing I promised myself -when I was being wheeled into surgery the one thing I promised myself is, okay if I'm coming out of this alive then I'm going to really make sure that I live life to the fullest that I listen to myself and take care of my own needs, of course, and also take care of whoever else I have to take care of and do my work.  That I will listen to myself, that I won't drown that voice, that I will always give space for that voice, because earlier I might have drowned it in some situation. Does that make sense?

Pat

Oh my gosh, I couldn't say it in a more eloquent way. The way you honor self-care, and you're right, So many of us think, if I'm thinking about myself or I'm burning out, that's selfish. And to turn that around at whatever age, some people don't ever learn that, Vinya. And so the fact that you've learned it and cancer coming into your life, and as you say, if I come out of here alive, you've had an awakening that says, I'm precious. I need to take care of this precious self.

And I think that's what gives us power when we nurture ourselves and, most importantly, listen to ourselves. I don't know. It seems like we spend the first half of our lives arguing with our feelings. Well, I shouldn't be feeling that. Or I should be doing this or that. Then somewhere it's like, wait, wait, what is that feeling telling me? What am I feeling? Oh, that's information. I see.

And your revelation of that, your honoring of that, boy, that's for me is a huge takeaway from this conversation. It's a beautiful thing that you do.

Vinya

And to break the ceilings, right? So for me, I'm just so happy, Pat, that whatever I had in my wish list, I've been able to check off, right? One was like trying farming in India or moving to the countryside or quitting my successful job at that point.

So whatever. And then moving back when maybe other people wouldn't have. I'm happy that I've been able to check off many things on my bucket list. One thing I haven't been able to check off is parenthood. 

Being a parent. Okay. That's something that I haven't been able to check off because of health and other reasons. But I'm sure I'll find a way to check that off too. And so to be able to check things off our bucket list, to keep breaking ceilings, because I come from a family of government employees who business is not our forte.

I don't come from a family of entrepreneurs. So to learn how to run a business, to set it up. So, so many, it's so nice to be able to break off those feelings. I remember one of the coaching programs, I think it was Claire, the person who does Evolving Wisdom. I'm forgetting her name. It will come to me. She says this so beautifully:

She says, "imagine your whole lineage standing behind you, your mother, your grandmother, your great-grandmother, and your whole lineage, and they all have your back."

She says, you are the living representation of your entire lineage and your generation. What an awesome responsibility that is.

Pat

Yes, it is.

Vinya

Yeah, to think of it like that. And, you know, and I'm sure our grandmother and great-grandmother, they wouldn't want us to be like moaping and crying and carrying the whole weight of the world. I'm sure they would want us to be happy and celebrate life and do what we have to do, but with lightness and joy. So this lightness is coming much later. I used to be very serious about  checking things off and getting things done.

But now I think I'm much more lighter. I take it with a lot of lightness.

Pat

Well, Vinya, when Emily Dickinson wrote, "I dwell in possibility," you, Vinya, live that every day. And I want to thank you for the wonderful work that you do. And just you being you, I just, well, you know, dear friend, I love you. And not only do I love you, I do have such big respect for what you do. Because everything you'd put your mind to, look out, it's going to be done. And so thank you for sharing your work and who you are on Fill To Capacity today. Thank you so much.

Vinya

Oh, Pat, you are one of my angels.

You really are my guardian angel. I love what we do in our Friday circle. The wisdom you bring, your presence, the artist that you are, the color that you bring. I just love the way you take care of squirrels and animals and your stories.

 And gosh, the podcast, just I'm honored to be part of your circle. And this has been so nice having this conversation with you in this platform. Thank you.

Pat

And thank you, listeners, for joining us today. And take care of yourselves. See you next time. Bye.